00;00;00;09 - 00;00;13;04 J.R. Jamison Jamison: Life after the age of 60. For some, they're living their best lives, like skydiving with friends. Others are searching for purpose after retirement. But it can also be a time of loneliness. I'm J.R. Jamison. 00;00;13;11 - 00;00;26;19 Kelsey Timmerman Timmerman: And I'm Kelsey Timmerman. Today on the Facing Project, we'll share call-ins and stories, discussing the diversity of life after 60: the golden years. [Theme music] 00;00;26;21 - 00;00;45;20 J.R. Jamison Jamison: First, we want to acknowledge that we're not in our 60s or our 70s, 80s or even our 90s. We're two early 40-somethings who have chosen to dedicate an episode of the show to those who have come before, those who technically could be our parents. And spoiler alert, you may hear from our moms. 00;00;45;22 - 00;00;54;09 Kelsey Timmerman Timmerman: J.R., I hate to tell you this, but 40? That's over the hill. Or at least that's what I read on the internet. You're descending, my friend. 00;00;54;11 - 00;01;03;17 J.R. Jamison Jamison: [Clears throat] Well, you're six months older, so I won't be, well, let's just say descending any time soon. At least not as fast as you. 00;01;03;19 - 00;01;08;26 Kelsey Timmerman Timmerman: I guess. Yeah, I guess you got me there. But you should respect your elders, okay? 00;01;08;29 - 00;01;09;10 J.R. Jamison Jamison: [Laughing] Uh, yeah. 00;01;09;11 - 00;01;31;23 Kelsey Timmerman Timmerman: So, you know, sometimes I think about the Vikings and how their life expectancy was about 40. I'm 41. So by this point, if I were a Viking, I'd be a battle hardened, grizzled warrior. Or I'd be in Valhalla drinking mead with Thor. Either way, I'd sit around and pass on my wisdoms. My stories would be valued and revered. 00;01;31;25 - 00;01;39;17 Kelsey Timmerman Honestly, I don't know much about the Vikings, so this might not be true at all. Maybe they treated their aging warriors like we treat ours. 00;01;39;19 - 00;02;05;23 J.R. Jamison Jamison: You are blond and hairy, so I'm sure you are a descendant of the Vikings. But seriously though, we live in a culture in which what we do often defines who we are. But this can lead to an identity crisis when we retire, if we are fortunate enough to retire. We live in a society in which anti-aging is its own industry, valued at more than $250 billion annually. 00;02;05;25 - 00;02;24;19 J.R. Jamison Marketers want us to fear growing older. And even though more than a third of the US population is older than 50, the group is included in only 15% of media images. And when they do appear in ads, they're often featured at home, not shown being active, and only 5% show them holding some type of technology. 00;02;24;22 - 00;02;37;06 Kelsey Timmerman Timmerman: But here's the thing: everybody ages, even Princess Leia. Carrie Fisher played the princess in Star Wars and returned to the role for The Force Awakens. I'm sure you watch that one, J.R., right? 00;02;37;08 - 00;02;38;24 J.R. Jamison Jamison: Uh, no. [Laughter] 00;02;38;26 - 00;03;07;06 Kelsey Timmerman Timmerman: So some criticize her for not aging well and putting on weight since she wore her golden bikini in Jabba's lair 30 years ago. And to those folks, she offered up this wonderful quote: “Youth and beauty are not accomplishments.” Vikings and princesses and everybody in between, we all get older. Here in the story biz, we found that those who have a lifetime of experiences often have the best stories, and yet are often overlooked. 00;03;07;09 - 00;03;26;20 Kelsey Timmerman We're currently wrapping up a project titled The Golden Years: Life After 60, which highlights those with stories to share about growing older, the joys and struggles, the biology and psychology, the frustrations and wisdoms. The project is sponsored by Life Stream Services. So I've been working with a team of volunteers on the project and visiting senior centers and reading stories. 00;03;26;20 - 00;03;50;28 Kelsey Timmerman And while there's plenty of joy, there is also some injustice and discrimination. I knew this, but didn't really know this, but ageism is real. In fact, according to the World Health Organization, ageism creates its own health risk. Those who think positively about aging live seven and a half years longer. The WHO has a whole page on ageism. They state, “Ageism is everywhere. 00;03;51;00 - 00;04;15;24 Kelsey Timmerman Yet It is the most socially normalized of any prejudice and is not widely countered. These attitudes lead to the marginalization of older people within our communities and have negative impacts on their health and well-being.” Now, our stories from this project aren't explicitly about ageism, but we feel like this is an important conversation up front to provide some context to the society we all age into, if we're lucky. 00;04;15;26 - 00;04;23;29 Kelsey Timmerman My friend Michael Brockley, he was a poet, recently retired as a school psychologist, and he shared a poem in three parts looking back on his career. 00;04;24;01 - 00;04;50;14 Michael Brockley Brockley: The first one is called “Aloha Shirt Man Reflects Upon His School Psychologist Career.” At the beginning of my 2016-2017 year as a school psychologist, my boss then told me I should leave a legacy as part of my retirement. And I, I had some ideas. Some of them were kind of foolish. I did wind up buying a buddy bench for each of my three schools. 00;04;50;16 - 00;05;21;04 Michael Brockley But I also wanted to leave something creative. And so during that year, I read a, I wrote a poem and that eventually became this poem, “Aloha Shirt Man Reflects Upon His School Psychologist Career.” At first I wore polyester, Mickey Mouse and Garfield neckties. The Disney icon swinging a baseball bat, and a cat cheering the weekend's arrival. One principal complained I was book dumb. 00;05;21;06 - 00;05;55;20 Michael Brockley A girl who delivered the news banner told her teacher I was old and fat and bald. I was 36, listening to Small Town on my cassette player. How many bell curves did I scrawl on the backs of scrap paper? How many tales did I tell about Russian nesting dolls and slow cars? Still, every time I offered the use of my pencil with all the right answers, the children grinned. 00;05;55;22 - 00;06;34;02 Michael Brockley I ate apple pies with flying jets and Johnny Marzetti with Starfires. Debated Goofy’s species with a Raider who watched Pinky and the Brain. For Talk Like a Pirate Day, I knotted a silk Jolly Roger necktie. Pretended a marble pie was a school psychologist cape when Superhero Day was declared. I talked baseball cards with a frightened boy and exposed the Shawnee prophet masquerading as Tecumseh. While I visited their classes, 00;06;34;05 - 00;07;12;04 Michael Brockley crazy haired teachers in mismatched socks read their students, I'm in Charge of Celebrations.” On 100th day, teachers in old codger garb unveiled the butterfly cycle to gray haired children clutching canes. Van Gogh masterpieces decorated the halls of my schools beside hand printed interviews with giant squids and grasshoppers. When kindergartners posted graphs of the superheroes they admired, I always found their teachers at the top. 00;07;12;06 - 00;07;40;02 Michael Brockley After I wrote that last poem, I started thinking that I really need to write something about parents and students. Evidently every every one of these is about students, but, but I thought that the first one ultimately was kind of a, a salute to teachers. It took me a couple of years to write these next two. 00;07;40;05 - 00;08;03;06 Michael Brockley The first one having appeared in the Facing Education Project several years ago. When I wrote them, both of these poems came pretty much together. “Aloha Shirt Man Thanks the Parents of His Students for Teaching Him Gratitude.” 00;08;03;08 - 00;08;18;25 Michael Brockley You waited for me at the exit where we watched children hustled toward dismissal busses, a few of the third graders already wearing Halloween costumes for the evening's trunk or treat. 00;08;18;28 - 00;08;46;04 Michael Brockley You shared a slice of the German chocolate cake your son had baked. Bragged about how he repairs laptops in your neighborhood. Later, you worried when your daughter lined up the dinosaurs you bought for her during a trip to the Field Museum in Chicago. She didn't know the worth of a dime, but lectured you on the extinction dates of pachycephalosaurus. 00;08;46;07 - 00;09;17;02 Michael Brockley I showed you how to use photographs to teach her how to brush her teeth. One of your sons gave me a possum doll in a rocking chair for Christmas. A daughter fashioned a birthday collage from National Geographic clippings and orange construction paper. At reading festivals, you fed me Amish meatballs, followed by brown bag apple pie. I listened while you fretted over homework, questioned math and the latest bell curve 00;09;17;02 - 00;09;50;01 Michael Brockley myths you heard on the news. I've offered you Kleenex. I've cried alone in my drive home. One spring, I spoke with you about breeding horses during a track and field day. On the cinders an Amish boy and farm boots raced ahead of his classmates until slowing along the homestretch to allow three of his peers to win ribbons. Now I strive to finish fourth in the races I have left to run. 00;09;50;04 - 00;10;00;07 Michael Brockley I've already won a possum in a rocking chair. [Reflective acoustic guitar music] 00;10;00;09 - 00;10;04;07 J.R. Jamison 00;10;04;09 - 00;10;12;06 J.R. Jamison Jamison: As Michael reflects back on his years as a psychologist in school systems, one of our callers has started a new teaching career in Florida. 00;10;12;08 - 00;10;33;10 Cheryl from North Port, Florida Cheryl: Hi, Cheryl, North Port, Florida. And I just want you to know that I am 60 and I am living my best life. I am doing what I love, which is teaching, and I'm in paradise, so can't get much better than that. Bye! 00;10;33;12 - 00;10;45;16 Kelsey Timmerman Timmerman: By as we get older, so do our family and friends. And there may come a time where we become caretakers of our own parents. Lylanne Musselman shared her story with Julie Davis. 00;10;45;18 - 00;11;11;24 Lylanne Musselman Musselman: “Freeing the Survivor.” Lylanne Musselman’s story as told to Jackie Harris. At 63, people may look at me and think, she's doing great. She's probably had a lot of good breaks in her life. She looks happy. I would tell them they are right about a few of those things. However, I've not had an easy life. My parents’ relationship had a definite effect on me. 00;11;11;27 - 00;11;40;24 Lylanne Musselman Dad was a silent and remote person throughout my life. Mom never had my best interests at heart. She was controlling. And as I've grown to learn, narcissistic. She has appeared in many of my poems and stories. Recently, I served as her caregiver and in that role, she's still always wanted me with her, even when there was no reason. All I wanted to do was go to my room and write or read. 00;11;40;26 - 00;12;04;01 Lylanne Musselman It explained a lot about my parents’ relationship. I feel my mom was more afraid of being alone than being in a marriage that didn't make her happy. I've written a lot about her dementia. In fact, I was recently nominated for a Pushcart Prize for a poem I wrote about being mom's caregiver. I've been in many relationships throughout my life. 00;12;04;03 - 00;12;29;27 Lylanne Musselman I married when I was 18. My two daughters are from that marriage, and they are the lights of my life. He was mentally abusive, so I was a single mom for most of their growing up, with a few other relationships and marriages tossed in. Unfortunately, those relationships were abusive as well, mentally and physically. I learned from those experiences and moved forward. 00;12;29;29 - 00;12;56;25 Lylanne Musselman Now the security that carries me comes from my poetry, art, my family, friends, and my kitties. Both of my daughters are in healthy marriages and I enjoy my grandchildren and great grandchildren. I'm happy that through all my daughters saw me go through, they learn what not to do. They have better marriages than I thought possible. They give me hope. 00;12;56;27 - 00;13;26;07 Lylanne Musselman Along the way, I was inspired by Natalie Goldberg's “Writing Down the Bones: Freeing the Writer Within.” This prompted me to reenroll at Ball State after dropping out 20 years earlier. I put off taking an English class because I still thought I was a horrid writer. My initial major was graphic design. When I finally enrolled in my first English class, I had an instructor who helped me relax with writing. 00;13;26;10 - 00;14;01;04 Lylanne Musselman My subsequent teacher marked my paper up and I started doubting myself again. However, this time I was more mature and instead of bailing college again, I talked to her and received encouragement. The more I wrote, the more I improved. I had many opportunities at Ball State. I got poetry published while there and my one act play produced. Since graduating, I've had six more one act plays produced, and I'm a widely published poet. 00;14;01;06 - 00;14;25;27 Lylanne Musselman I went on to get my master's degree at University of Indianapolis, and I've been teaching writing classes of all stripes as an adjunct professor for Ivy Tech Community College for 14 years, and many other institutions, as I've made my way. I have surprised myself and others by putting myself in front of people, in classrooms and at poetry readings. 00;14;25;29 - 00;14;52;00 Lylanne Musselman The timid person I once was now enjoys these things. During the rough years, there was a time when I turned my back on God and was angry that life was not kind, but I missed church and I began paying attention to friends still in the church community. I realized that my church friends had given me good advice in the past, so I turned to them again. 00;14;52;02 - 00;15;19;04 Lylanne Musselman Through them, I realized the abuse hadn't been my fault. I was the victim and I hadn't deserved the treatment I received. Yes, I am one of the #MeToo victims, beginning at 15 years old. Instead of running farther from God and hiding the multiple abuses, I take solace now in finding a church home and then finding my voice. 00;15;19;06 - 00;15;53;23 Lylanne Musselman I'm a survivor. I don't have much income since I'm an adjunct instructor and an artist. Unpredictable or unexpected financial situations are difficult. I only have one good eye. I was born with a birth defect. As I've aged, I've worried about going blind, not being able to draw, drive, etc. I don't want to lose my independence. I often wonder how I didn't grow into more insecurities instead of growing out of them. 00;15;53;25 - 00;16;20;26 Lylanne Musselman I feel that credit goes to my grandma, who I was extremely close to; to my love of reading, where I gained empathy; to my natural enjoyment of solitude, which is so important for my creativity; and to the teachers and professors that made a big impact on me, giving me encouragement. My high school art teacher, Ann Johnson, still to this day is my biggest cheerleader. 00;16;20;28 - 00;16;42;15 Lylanne Musselman Retirement is not appealing for those of us in the arts. I want to keep writing, painting, and teaching. I plan to keep participating in community organizations. Basically, I want to be a good creative citizen. Through it all, finally, I'm happy with who I am. 00;16;42;17 - 00;17;10;29 Lylanne Musselman And here's my poem, “Each Day,” that was first published in Tipton Poetry Journal. Each day, she doesn't think she needs anyone to stay with her to take care of her, make sure she eats, make sure she takes meds at the right time, the right dosage. Make sure she doesn't fall as she toddles down the hallway like a two year old with her walker. 00;17;11;02 - 00;17;52;25 Lylanne Musselman She gets mad when told, “You can't stay alone.” Each day, she gets crankier and glares at me as if I'm her arch enemy. Me, her only child who put my freedom on hold to keep her free from the fate of the nursing home she dreads. She argues she's just fine as she repeats herself every five minutes as she accuses me of stealing her mail, of being mean to her as she mockingly calls me mom for reminding her to do mundane things as she forgets the birthdays of those she loves, 00;17;52;28 - 00;18;11;23 Lylanne Musselman as she attempts to change TV channels with the mobile phone and wonders why it isn't working. [Radiant and positive synth pad music] 00;18;11;25 - 00;18;24;25 J.R. Jamison Jamison: Lylanne talked about her spiritual journey, writing and art. Another caller is on the same path, and has taken her time during retirement and this pandemic to keep track of the days and to think of those less fortunate. 00;18;24;27 - 00;18;47;12 Barbara from Daleville, Indiana Barbara: I am 78 years of age, and I wake up every morning and thank God for another day, and the next thing I do is pray for those who have no one to pray for them, or seldom do: those at the border seeking refuge, those in detention camps, and the homeless, and all those who are in need of our prayers and our help. 00;18;47;14 - 00;19;02;08 Barbara from Daleville, Indiana And I keep a pandemic journal to record my feelings each day when I wake up and comment on what's going on with this pandemic. [Phone gently hangs up] 00;19;02;11 - 00;19;23;26 Kelsey Timmerman Timmerman: I think my parents imagined their 60s differently. The financial crisis of 2008 threw them for a loop. So instead of retiring and traveling, they started two businesses that keep them busier than they would like. Mom was diagnosed with fibromyalgia. Yet she runs her own yoga studio. Yoga helps her stay healthy and she enjoys helping others. 00;19;23;29 - 00;19;48;16 J.R. Jamison Jamison: My mom is 69 and, sorry mom, if you're listening, please don't be mad about revealing your age. Four years ago, she decided to take up walking and then running. 65 was this magical age where she was like, I'm going to conquer the world. I'll be honest though, I didn't think it would last. She had always been healthy for the most part, but she was never an athlete. 00;19;48;19 - 00;20;09;06 J.R. Jamison But during the first year of her running career, I would receive calls every Saturday afternoon and she would talk about the 5K of the day, the medals she had won, and, I kid you not, she always placed first or second in her age range. So there was something there. She had found this new outlet and she was looking better, had more energy and all around seemed like a happier person. 00;20;09;08 - 00;20;30;09 J.R. Jamison And it stuck. Probably my proudest moment is when she told me two years ago she wanted to run the Indy Mini, a half marathon, 13.1 miles, with me. I'd taken up running a decade earlier and had done at least a dozen half marathons at that point. I never in my life imagined my mom doing one, but she did. 00;20;30;11 - 00;20;50;21 J.R. Jamison She finished a little over 2.5 hours, and since I first in an hour and 40 minutes, I was able to watch her cross the finish line. There were people younger than I crossing after her. I hope when I'm her age, I'm still moving with such grace and confidence. And her secret? I'm sure this will come as no surprise. 00;20;50;24 - 00;20;59;09 J.R. Jamison Just keep moving. We heard this from others who called into the show, like Darlene in Yorktown, Indiana, and Jay in Saint Mary's, Ohio. 00;20;59;12 - 00;21;26;04 Darlene Renner Renner: My name is Darlene Renner, and I'm from Yorktown, Indiana. I'm 69 years young. I have come to the conclusion that everything boils down to choice. You can choose to be happy. Look for the small things that make you happy. You can choose to be busy. Never let laziness take hold of your life. You can choose not to be bored. 00;21;26;06 - 00;21;57;08 Darlene Renner Look for something that inspires you. You can choose to learn new things. Read something. Learn a new skill. Don't let stagnation take over your life. It's deadly. You can choose to keep your mind open. There are always a different way to look at a situation. And finally, choose to give yourself permission to experience new and wonderful things. New experiences 00;21;57;08 - 00;22;04;27 Darlene Renner give a new lease on life. Life is precious. Make the most of it. 00;22;04;29 - 00;22;33;06 Jay from St. Mary’s, Ohio Jay: This is Jay. I'm 82 years old. I live in Saint Mary's, Ohio, which is about an hour and 15 minutes from Muncie, Indiana. And, frequently during this Covid, I travel to Muncie to visit with my daughter just to break up the monotony of staring at these four walls. If I had to give anybody any advice.... As I said, I'm 82. 00;22;33;08 - 00;23;00;18 Jay from St. Mary’s, Ohio As you reach my age, stay active. Stay as active as you possibly can. Because I've learned over the years that people that stop, decide they're just going to sit and read and watch television, die within about a year. So let’s not have that happen. My activity is primarily centered around music. I'm a long time musician, and I play string bass in a lot of concert bands and jazz bands. 00;23;00;21 - 00;23;08;18 Jay from St. Mary’s, Ohio So that's it. Stay active. Keep busy. Stay safe and stay away from the virus. Thank you. 00;23;08;20 - 00;23;26;29 J.R. Jamison Jamison: What Jay didn't mention that we've since learned from his daughter is that he was in the control room in Houston during Apollo 13. Yes, you heard that right. Jay works for NASA, making sure their Sperry Univac computers didn't fail. He said to his daughter, “That day sure didn't go as planned.” 00;23;27;01 - 00;23;37;27 Kelsey Timmerman Timmerman: In season one, we shared a story from our friend, a different Jay, Jay Zimmerman. He too had so many stories that had gone untold until we took the time to sit and listen. 00;23;37;29 - 00;24;00;11 Larry Beck Beck: I had asthma as a kid. I remember being in an oxygen tent. I had this doctor, Doctor Jacobs, who bought me one of those old metal toy gas stations and put it together with me in the hospital. He said it wasn't healthy for me to live in New York City. So my parents moved to Florida. My father found this cottage right on the beach in Saint Petersburg. 00;24;00;14 - 00;24;23;29 Larry Beck I could literally climb out my window and be on the beach. During spring training, the New York Yankees practiced on my little league field. It was a different time then. The players were more accessible. Mickey Mantle showed me how to hit. I took a pitch from Whitey Ford. I stood in the batter's box, shaking the whole time. Scared the living hell out of me. 00;24;24;01 - 00;24;31;22 Larry Beck I didn't swing. I didn't even see the ball. It was wonderful. It was incredible. It was heaven. 00;24;31;24 - 00;24;51;09 Kelsey Timmerman Timmerman: Jay went on to tell me that in college, he worked for a weekly newspaper and was assigned to cover a Martin Luther King Jr. speech. And he actually got the chance to interview him. I had known Jay for years, and it wasn't until I interviewed him not long before he passed away that he shared these almost unbelievable stories. 00;24;51;11 - 00;25;05;08 Kelsey Timmerman Oh yeah, and he also introduced me to the Gandhis. Yes, those Gandhis. And there are those everyday stories, things we'll remember, that to others seem mundane, but are indelible in our own memories. 00;25;05;11 - 00;25;40;00 Michael Brockley Brockley: I'd written a poem about teachers, dedicated to teachers, and a poem dedicated to parents. And as the school year wound down, I thought I really needed to get something in here that specifically was thanking the students. I want to say a little bit about Aloha Shirt Man. Aloha Shirt Man is kind of my alter ego. And when I wrote these poems, I thought that maybe he should get a chance to do some speaking other than being kind of a, a fool in my other poems. 00;25;40;01 - 00;26;02;23 Michael Brockley So this is this is Aloha Shirt Man also getting to strut his stuff a little bit. This is “Aloha Shirt Man Thanks the Students Who Made His School Psychology Career a Gift.” In the beginning, I showed you how to scramble blocks and asked what you like to do for fun. 00;26;02;25 - 00;26;24;08 Michael Brockley You'd say search for arrowheads in the fields your father plowed, or played a zookeeper in an Xbox game. When you practiced multiplication facts, I told you how I cheated on times tables test at Saint Gabriel's until my mother caught me counting on my fingers. 00;26;24;11 - 00;26;56;10 Michael Brockley I remember the day your social studies teacher forgot Indonesia was an island. The time you taught a substitute the difference between lightning and lightening. You wore green t-shirts with pink scripted on the front. Or sports jerseys with 18 or 23 silk screened on the back. I read your recipe for making a peanut butter sandwich. Then helped you read The Grapes of Wrath in high school. 00;26;56;12 - 00;27;13;04 Michael Brockley I saluted your graduation from Legos to Minecraft to the go karts and guitars you designed during your homecoming year. We amazed ourselves with the shades of red that fall between burgundy and maroon. 00;27;13;07 - 00;27;46;14 Michael Brockley As the school year closed, I marveled at your superhero shirts, folded on the Lost and Found table. At your unclaimed Colts jackets, and silver batons. At an unmatched dusty shoe. On my last day, I watched you carry Cat in the Hat kites to waiting cars. Each of you a knight or a princess who will be the lightning and lightening for all the lives before me. 00;27;46;16 - 00;27;56;19 Kelsey Timmerman Timmerman: As we think about lives lived and careers had, I keep thinking about Jay and what he shared with me the last time I spoke with him, and his outlook on life. 00;27;56;21 - 00;28;21;22 Larry Beck Beck: I have regrets, but I mean, my life is what it is and I've come to terms with that. I feel like I've had a pretty significant life. I've made contributions. I feel satisfied. You know, everybody's going to die. I told my kids to put me in a canoe. Get somebody with a bow and a flaming arrow. Send me out on the lake. 00;28;21;25 - 00;28;45;17 Larry Beck A Viking funeral. I have this notion that when you die, your energy becomes part of the energy of the universe. And some of your energy forms other life. I'll be floating out there. [Theme music] 00;28;45;20 - 00;28;49;19 Kelsey Timmerman 00;28;49;21 - 00;28;57;01 Kelsey Timmerman Timmerman: The book “Life After 60: The Golden Years” will be available soon on Amazon from the Facing Project Press. 00;28;57;03 - 00;29;23;23 J.R. Jamison Jamison: We want to thank all the listeners who contributed to today's episode. Voicemails from Cheryl in Northport, Florida; Barbara in Daleville, Indiana; Darlene in Yorktown, Indiana; and Jay in Saint Mary's, Ohio. Michael Brockley and Lylanne Musselman both read their stories from “Life After 60: The Golden Years,” a Facing Project. Lylanne’s story was written by Jackie Harris. Jay Zimmerman's story originally appeared in season one of this show. 00;29;23;25 - 00;29;27;16 J.R. Jamison It was written by Kelsey Timmerman and performed by Larry Beck. 00;29;27;19 - 00;29;56;18 Kelsey Timmerman Timmerman: To listen to past episodes of this program, visit IndianaPublicRadio.org/TheFacingProject. From there, you can subscribe to the podcast where you'll get episodes of the Facing Project delivered to your device each month. Listeners can contribute stories or volunteer to share the stories of others with the Facing Project that may appear on the show. More information at FacingProject.com/InspireAction. And to continue the conversation about this episode, find us on Facebook at the Facing Project. 00;29;56;21 - 00;30;18;01 J.R. Jamison Jamison: The Facing Project is recorded at Indiana Public Radio at Ball State University in beautiful Muncie, Indiana, and is produced by Sean Ashcraft. The show is distributed nationally through PRX. We are your host, Kelsey Timmerman and J.R. Jamison. And until next time, we wish you the courage to share your own story and the empathy to listen to others. [Theme music fades].