00;00;00;09 - 00;00;11;11 Kelsey Timmerman Timmerman: If all 7 billion people on Earth consume the amount of resources as the average American, it would be as if we shared the planet with 72 billion people. I'm Kelsey Timmerman. 00;00;11;11 - 00;00;24;17 J.R. Jamison Jamison: And I'm J.R. Jamison. Today on the Facing Project, we'll discuss food, Earth, and sustainability, and we'll chat with organic farmers who open their own grocery store. [Theme music] 00;00;24;19 - 00;00;32;14 Kelsey Timmerman Timmerman: So, J.R., did you go grocery shopping during the beginning of the pandemic, when the lockdown began? Did you buy anything that you normally wouldn't buy? 00;00;32;19 - 00;00;44;13 J.R. Jamison Jamison: I'm somewhat spoiled, so Corey does all of our grocery shopping, but I do remember telling him to stock up on plenty of beer and wine in case we wouldn't leave the house again in a good while. 00;00;44;17 - 00;00;45;19 Kelsey Timmerman Timmerman: The essentials. 00;00;45;20 - 00;01;12;28 J.R. Jamison Jamison: The essentials. And of course, you know, folks were stockpiling toilet paper, and, sorry everyone, but we joined that crowd as well. Looking back, it wasn't so much of buying something we wouldn't normally buy from a grocery store, but switching our eating habits to fresher food. Pre-pandemic, we ate frozen meals and prepackaged egg cups. I mean, I think I was the king of frozen meals. 00;01;13;01 - 00;01;23;18 J.R. Jamison It was just my go to. It's easy, but those are- Those items did become harder to find after March. So we shifted, for example, to making our own scrambled eggs from a friend's farm. 00;01;23;21 - 00;01;47;13 Kelsey Timmerman Timmerman: Egg cups. I'm not exactly sure what egg cups are, but speaking of eggs, like, we actually went the next step and we got chickens. We got eight of them. At one point, I did the math to see if, like, a family of four could live off of the eggs from seven old hens. We got one rooster, seven hands. And nope, you can't, like, we need about 30 more chickens. 00;01;47;15 - 00;02;06;24 Kelsey Timmerman Also, I personally would have to eat 13 eggs a day myself, which doesn't sound very appealing. But as for the food we had to source in a store, which was like 99%, I bought some tuna packets I take when I go hiking, a few cans of whatever soup was left. I think I have some like pickled pumpkin, sauerkraut soup or something. 00;02;06;25 - 00;02;07;04 J.R. Jamison Jamison: Ew. 00;02;07;06 - 00;02;25;05 Kelsey Timmerman Timmerman: So suddenly- [laughing] Yeah. Suddenly shopping wasn't about taste or preferences; it was about calories and survival. The just in time food system was in jeopardy of collapsing. There were shipping issues, of course, and we all heard reports that the meatpacking plants that experienced Covid outbreaks and then shut down. 00;02;25;11 - 00;02;40;18 J.R. Jamison Jamison: Yeah, I remember too, the chicken was hard to find. And Corey had said that beef and pork prices were skyrocketing. My mom even recounted a horror story to me of two women fighting over the last package of chuck steak in the frozen food aisle at Kroger. 00;02;40;24 - 00;02;47;18 Kelsey Timmerman Timmerman: Yikes. So I have a question. If food in the store runs out, then what? 00;02;47;22 - 00;03;11;27 J.R. Jamison Jamison: I don't know, we get to see more fights in grocery stores that could turn into an illegal gambling ring somehow. Like, imagine a Mad Max world right here in our community, but instead of Fury Road, it would be Mad Muncie: Fury in Aisle Five. [Laughter] Anyhow, well, all kidding aside, in Indiana, we have a lot of farmers like our friend with her chickens that lay delicious eggs. 00;03;11;27 - 00;03;14;13 Kelsey Timmerman Timmerman: And like my chickens too. You're leaving out my chickens? 00;03;14;14 - 00;03;18;02 J.R. Jamison Jamison: Yeah, but you have so few of them. [Laughter] 00;03;18;04 - 00;03;27;08 Kelsey Timmerman Timmerman: There are gorgeous. And they're very nice chickens. So aside from animals, like, what are in those Indiana fields we drive by? 00;03;27;10 - 00;03;39;15 J.R. Jamison Jamison: Spiders. I mean, like, I have nightmares of growing up and running through cornfields with those those huge spiders that aren't really that dangerous. But anyway, there's corn and soybeans. 00;03;39;16 - 00;03;55;24 Kelsey Timmerman Timmerman: So like, field corn would, like, break your teeth if you try to eat it. It's like, it's not really for human consumption. Like instead, it gets, like, processed into things, like, we do eat, like, corn flakes and corn syrup and, and ethanol to use for fuel and animal feed. So field corn is kind of out. 00;03;55;25 - 00;04;07;24 J.R. Jamison Jamison: Yeah. Well, I do eat a lot of cereal, so I guess that does count in some ways. But we do have a ton of soybeans, and much can be done with those. So for example, my favorite side dish is edamame. 00;04;07;26 - 00;04;22;26 Kelsey Timmerman Timmerman: Our fields aren't filled with your bougie edamame. You're right, you can eat soybeans, but you really need to cook them first. Or you could end up with some major digestion issues. So enjoy your bowl of boiled Indiana soybeans. 00;04;22;28 - 00;04;31;11 J.R. Jamison Jamison: Well, you make that sound so appetizing. Delicious, actually. And those empty shelves at the grocery store? That doesn't sound so sustainable. 00;04;31;15 - 00;04;40;16 Kelsey Timmerman Timmerman: Exactly. Sustainable. That's today's secret word. Remember Pee-wee Herman? What do you do when we hear the secret word? 00;04;40;17 - 00;04;42;15 J.R. Jamison Jamison: Scream? 00;04;42;17 - 00;04;44;10 Kelsey Timmerman Timmerman: Yes. I'm waiting. 00;04;44;13 - 00;04;50;17 J.R. Jamison Jamison: Okay, well, let's do it together on one, two, three. 00;04;50;19 - 00;04;52;29 Jamison & Timmerman Jamison & Timmerman: Ahhh! 00;04;53;01 - 00;04;57;26 J.R. Jamison Jamison: That's- I feel like we sound exactly like Pee-wee Herman, right? 00;04;58;02 - 00;05;07;01 Kelsey Timmerman Timmerman: I think so. I think you should get your own Pee-wee Harmon show. So, so anyhow, we had a project on sustainability. 00;05;07;01 - 00;05;08;19 J.R. Jamison Jamison: Ahhhh! [Laughter] 00;05;08;22 - 00;05;16;18 Kelsey Timmerman Timmerman: So listeners, you're welcome to play along. This can be an interactive show. So we had a project on the S-word. 00;05;16;19 - 00;05;20;17 J.R. Jamison Jamison: Yes we did. And to be clear, it was sustainability. 00;05;20;17 - 00;05;23;08 Kelsey Timmerman Timmerman: Ahhhh! [Laughter] 00;05;23;11 - 00;05;25;17 J.R. Jamison Jamison: And not the other S-word. 00;05;25;23 - 00;05;46;03 Kelsey Timmerman Timmerman: Of course the other S-word is at the heart of sustainable agriculture. So don't get me started on poop. No joke. I found this book at an outhouse in Chile. It was called “Holy S-Word: Managing Manure to Save Mankind.” Anyhow, I won't get into it, but it's the number one book on number two. I highly recommend it. 00;05;46;04 - 00;06;14;07 J.R. Jamison Jamison: Sounds like some good bathroom reading. Anyhow, as I was saying, the project was led by Ball State Associate Professor Adam Kuban, who's been in charge of a few Facing Projects, and he was joined by 11 students from the Ball State University Honors College. They captured stories on recycling, worm hotels, land conservation, farming and more. It's important we mention the project was inspired by the efforts of Cheryl Swingly, Annette Rose and Barb Stedman, who organized the sustainability... 00;06;14;10 - 00;06;15;12 Kelsey Timmerman Timmerman: I'm done screaming. 00;06;15;13 - 00;06;20;22 J.R. Jamison Jamison: Okay. Okay. ...Sustainability conference known as the Living Lightly Fair. 00;06;20;29 - 00;06;32;26 Kelsey Timmerman Timmerman: On today's episode, we share the story of Sara and Dave Ring, owners of a unique grocery store and deli in downtown Muncie, committed to sustainability. And they'll join us later in the show. 00;06;32;29 - 00;06;59;19 Carl Frost Frost: When we open the doors of the Downtown Farm Stand for the first time back in 2007, it didn't look like a store at all. We didn't even have a sign out front, and the inside of the store was still partially under construction. None of this mattered much, though, because we had ambitious goals and a clientele. At the time, downtown Muncie was classified as a food desert, an area where it's difficult to find nutritious food. 00;06;59;19 - 00;07;25;07 Carl Frost And it was true. There was nowhere for people to go if they wanted to buy organic, and it was practically impossible to find something as simple as a locally grown tomato in Muncie during the week. We actually chose our location purposefully so people from low income neighborhoods would have easier access to our store. When it comes to healthy, organic, locally grown food, we believe that it shouldn't be off limits to anyone. 00;07;25;10 - 00;07;46;18 J.R. Jamison Jamison: It's important to note here that one out of every six American households are food insecure, and those living in a food desert are more likely to have higher rates of depression. And some food deserts may actually be food swamps. There may not be a grocery store with healthy options nearby, but often there are convenience stores or fast food restaurants packed with food high in calories, sodium, and sugar. 00;07;46;18 - 00;07;56;18 J.R. Jamison And according to the National Library of Medicine, the best way to reverse this is for there to be healthier options in food insecure neighborhoods. So, Dave and Sara were ahead of the curve here. 00;07;56;23 - 00;08;15;22 Carl Frost Frost: Three years prior to the opening of the store, we had started a local organic farmers market, but over time, we noticed that other small farmers like us were struggling to sell all of their products there. It was observations like this that gave us the idea for a brick and mortar place for farmers to drop off their products and know they would be sold. 00;08;15;23 - 00;08;36;10 Carl Frost This way they could turn their time and attention back to farming. What we didn't realize at first was how many hours the farm stand were to require on our part. A lot of time was spent trying to get together all of the small things it takes to open a store like ours. We needed coolers, a cash register, shelving, and the costs began to add up. 00;08;36;12 - 00;08;53;20 Carl Frost For the first year, we managed to keep our farm going as well as keep the store open for one day a week. But the more hours we put into the store, the more successful it was. So we expanded to limited hours six days a week in 2009. That was when we realized we would have to put the farm on hold. 00;08;53;27 - 00;09;14;27 Carl Frost We knew it was a necessity to support local organic farmers and give consumers access to good, healthy food, even if we weren't going to bring home a paycheck until two years after we opened. One comment that we get fairly often is that our prices are higher than those of similar products being sold in stores, such as Walmart and Target. 00;09;15;00 - 00;09;39;09 Carl Frost While this is true, it's important to weigh the costs and benefits. There's a natural instinct to say, “I can't afford it.” But to be able to live and eat healthily and support a clean environment, many of our customers end up sacrificing unnecessary things like cable TV or the best data plan. An example of one such person is a woman who frequently came into our store to buy ground beef 00;09;39;10 - 00;10;00;12 Carl Frost a few years back. She told us that despite the higher costs, she believed it actually saved her money because our meat lasted longer, whereas the meat from corporate grocery stores would shrink in the pan from all the fat and water. And this is just one example. Many customers notice that our food tastes better and is more filling than processed foods they had eaten before. 00;10;00;14 - 00;10;20;01 Carl Frost One of the harder aspects of what we do, though, is ensuring that everything we sell is organic first and foremost. We won't accept less, so it can be awkward when non-organic farms come to us to sell their products and we have to decline. At one point, we found out that our local honey producer hadn't been selling their own honey exclusively. 00;10;20;01 - 00;10;40;09 Carl Frost Instead, they had bought commodity honey in large barrels and sold it as their own. So we had to back out of business with them. We don't focus on being environmentally friendly simply for the purpose of being labeled as a sustainable business, but rather because we are genuinely concerned about the impact we are having on our world. 00;10;40;12 - 00;10;43;14 Kelsey Timmerman Timmerman: So, J.R., do you remember those “choose your own adventure” books? 00;10;43;15 - 00;10;55;16 J.R. Jamison Jamison: Of course, it was my reading of choice until my fifth grade teacher told me I couldn't write book reports on those. Apparently, someone wasn't willing to get lost in a multi-adventure tale. 00;10;55;18 - 00;11;09;28 Kelsey Timmerman Timmerman: [Laughing] Okay, J.R., so in this scenario we're going to, we're going to do one. In this scenario you are, you're a farmer and [sing-song:] on your farm you have a [normal:] building full of dairy cows. So what do cows do? 00;11;09;29 - 00;11;11;10 J.R. Jamison Jamison: They eat. 00;11;11;13 - 00;11;14;02 Kelsey Timmerman Timmerman: And they...? 00;11;14;04 - 00;11;18;03 J.R. Jamison Jamison: ...poop. I knew this was going to get back around to poop since I'm talking to you. 00;11;18;06 - 00;11;32;14 Kelsey Timmerman Timmerman: Yes. So you've got a lot- [laughing] You've got a lot of cows in your barn, and they all poop, but you don't have enough land to spread all of the manure. So you put it in a big ol lagoon. It fills up with 21 million gallons of cow poo. 00;11;32;16 - 00;11;33;10 J.R. Jamison Jamison: Gross. 00;11;33;11 - 00;11;57;00 Kelsey Timmerman Timmerman: Here's where the adventure comes in. Giant bubbles form on your poop lagoon. These are 20ft tall methane bubbles the size of small homes, and they're able to be seen from space. So do you A. call somebody and ask for help; B. think to yourself, “Yeah. You know, it's just a big bubble. And well, I've got this here pocket knife in my pocket.” 00;11;57;05 - 00;12;02;19 Kelsey Timmerman And then you take a paddle boat out to one of the bubbles and try to pop it. 00;12;02;21 - 00;12;10;22 J.R. Jamison Jamison: Totally option B. I mean, what could go wrong? And of course, it's an adventure. If this is a choose your own adventure book. So I'm going with option B. 00;12;10;25 - 00;12;33;12 Kelsey Timmerman Timmerman: Okay, option B: You slip your paddle boat into the lagoon of poo and gingerly step inside. For a moment, you recall happier days fishing from this boat, but then, the smell brings you back to the present, and you pull up your handkerchief. You pull out your knife, insert it into the bubble, and boom, you are blown 40 feet through the air, and your eyebrows are burned off. 00;12;33;12 - 00;12;34;28 Kelsey Timmerman But you survived. 00;12;34;29 - 00;12;40;16 J.R. Jamison Jamison: And I'm covered in poo? [Laughing] I would imagine... 00;12;40;18 - 00;12;42;06 Kelsey Timmerman Timmerman: Maybe you lost a little dignity. 00;12;42;07 - 00;12;48;19 J.R. Jamison Jamison: Maybe I should have gone with option A, although I don't know, option B is still the best “choose your own adventure” in this adventure, I guess. 00;12;48;24 - 00;12;55;08 Kelsey Timmerman Timmerman: That is. It was fun. It was fun. Option A, just a professional poop bubble popper comes out and does it for you, right? 00;12;55;09 - 00;12;55;26 J.R. Jamison Jamison: Yeah. 00;12;55;27 - 00;13;17;08 Kelsey Timmerman Timmerman: B was better. So this actually happened to a farmer in Minnesota. And anyhow, all this is to show is that our way of agriculture is kind of nutty. Like farmers are specializing more now when it comes to crops and livestock, and few of them are in the business of both raising animals and growing crops. So for farmers, poop is a problem. 00;13;17;09 - 00;13;25;16 Kelsey Timmerman They have too much or not enough. So these are the types of issues Sara and Dave are trying to address on their own farm and in their store. 00;13;25;19 - 00;13;49;17 Carl Frost Frost: When we first opened the store, we reused a lot of things that were already here as building materials to clean up the place. Waste drives us crazy, so we try to stick to the bare minimum. We supply 100% post-consumer recycled paper and biodegradable bags and boxes for when our customers want to take food and drinks to go. All of our carryout silverware is made from sustainable wood. 00;13;49;18 - 00;14;18;07 Carl Frost We opt not to sell plastic bottles of water, even though we could increase our sales by doing so. We have close to zero food waste. Anything that we have left over from the grocery we work into a soup or a special for the next day, or take it home and eat it ourselves. As organic farmers, we see how waste is impacting our ecosystem and contributing to climate change, which is why we do everything we can to reduce our ecological footprint. 00;14;18;09 - 00;14;45;07 Carl Frost Being sustainable is really a selfish choice. It's self-preservation. But we do what we do because we believe that the benefits are infinite. [progressive indie rock music] 00;14;45;10 - 00;14;52;12 Kelsey Timmerman Timmerman: Sara and Dave Ring are organic farmers and owners of the Downtown Farm Stand in Muncie, Indiana. Welcome to the show, Sara and Dave. How are you doing? 00;14;52;14 - 00;14;53;19 Dave Ring Dave: Good. Thanks for having us. 00;14;53;21 - 00;14;54;17 Sara Ring Sara: Great. Thanks for having us. 00;14;54;18 - 00;15;19;29 Kelsey Timmerman Timmerman: Yeah, thanks for always being great supporters of the Facing Project. We've eaten a lot of your paninis through the years, so it's helped fuel the project for sure. So in 2013, the Organic Consumer Association published a list of grocers that sold 100% organic products. It was a short list, and the Downtown Farm Stand was one of only five that exclusively sold organic products. 00;15;19;29 - 00;15;28;27 Kelsey Timmerman So congratulations on that. But why not- Why not slip in a little Kraft mac and cheese or Frosted Flakes? Why is organic so important? 00;15;28;28 - 00;15;56;20 Dave Ring Dave: Well, we really wanted to create, you know, the demand so that if there were producers or processors or anything in the area wanting to do organic, that that demand would be there. And then it also we kind of passed that demand up. So when we have a distributor, like our beer and wine distributor or anybody else, and they try to sell us other goods, and we're like, “Well, no, we're an all organic store, what do you have 00;15;56;20 - 00;16;11;28 Dave Ring that’s organic?” And so then they ask their bosses and their distributors so that, that, that request just kind of travels itself up the line. We’re really purchasing with our dollars. We don't really want to purchase anything, either, that's not organic. We're kind of, I guess, purist in that sense. 00;16;11;28 - 00;16;35;15 Kelsey Timmerman Timmerman: But, you know, that's a great way- You're supporting organic growers and like the industry as a whole. But like, fundamentally, like, why? Like, why is it so important for you to support organic in terms of like environment, cultural aspects, economic- Like what is so critical about organic that you've just, like, don't compromise on that one area? 00;16;35;18 - 00;16;59;06 Dave Ring Dave: Well, I would like both of us to weigh in on this because, you know, we're, we're each have our own reasons. For me, I always, you know, when you're, when you're searching for, you know, a career or, or just a lifetime of what you want to do with yourself, and you, you know, I really wanted to, you know, contribute, make the world a better place. 00;16;59;06 - 00;17;24;22 Dave Ring And, and when I stumbled upon organic farming, like, in depth, and I started reading books and becoming knowledgeable of it and getting influenced, I- I began to understand that it was one of those rare answers that you find in life that can solve a lot of different problems, you know, so it can, you know, clean up the environment. 00;17;24;22 - 00;17;43;01 Dave Ring It can put people to work in good, clean jobs. It can give you healthy food for, with higher nutrient contents. And then you can cut down on the amount of toxins entering your body through pesticides. And clean air and clean water. 00;17;43;03 - 00;18;14;29 Dave Ring And then, you know, you're building communities. And so if you're, if you're throwing local into the mix, then you're purchasing that food in your community, which is, is adding to not just the, the economics of building community, but also just the giving people something to do that they feel empowered in, in their community. So it was it just seemed like a no brainer that it was something that, you know, I was kind of shocked that it hadn't caught caught on more. 00;18;14;29 - 00;18;17;13 Dave Ring And that maybe we could help. 00;18;17;15 - 00;18;43;14 Sara Ring Sara: I would say for me, when we moved out to California, and we had all the wonderful farmers markets, that was kind of my first experience with a lot of fresh food, where it was very exciting to see all the food and create things with the food. And then I started seeing how the food really impacted me. You know those around me, whether it be, you know, pets. 00;18;43;15 - 00;19;15;07 Sara Ring Then once we had kids, you know, the kids, how it affected them and it really became, you know, medicine for us, you know, and a lifestyle. On the other side. I could see when, you know, things that weren't healthy, things that weren't natural, things that weren't organic, had a negative impact on ourselves, our pets, our children. So I think that's what really started the passion for me and has kept it going. 00;19;15;09 - 00;19;37;15 Sara Ring You know, people kind of laugh when they come over sometimes, you know, employees or, or whatever that we don't know really well. And they're like, “Wow, your house looks just like the store.” It's like, yes, yeah, we have the store because we live the store. You know, we take those values at home. And with organic farming, it's a lifestyle that doesn't negatively impact anyone else or anything else. 00;19;37;15 - 00;19;47;16 Sara Ring And that's really important to me. You know, it builds up communities, it builds up people, and it just doesn't have a negative impact. 00;19;47;17 - 00;19;51;25 Kelsey Timmerman Timmerman: Yeah. So you both grew up in the Midwest? Is that correct? 00;19;51;27 - 00;19;52;17 Dave Ring Dave: Yep. 00;19;52;20 - 00;20;14;15 Kelsey Timmerman Timmerman: So I don't- I'm not even sure if I knew what organic food was until I moved away in, like, the early 2000s. I remember being in North Carolina and a coworker of mine was eating an organic orange and like, I think I made fun of her for, for it. And apparently I felt like real food required chemicals and everything else was like for hippies or... [Laughter] 00;20;14;15 - 00;20;29;07 Kelsey Timmerman So I've come a long way since then, but like, when and how did organic become something that was important to you personally? It sounded maybe that was in, like, California. Like, is that when you first heard about it? 00;20;29;08 - 00;20;39;03 Sara Ring Sara: That's when I was first exposed to it, really. Of course, you know, my grandparents farmed, you know, and, you know, back then there really wasn't inorganic. It was just the way that they grew food. 00;20;39;10 - 00;21;02;16 Dave Ring Dave: For me, like, well, so when we moved out to California, I had an idea about trying to do an internship on a farm. I actually got exposed to it in, while at Ball State. We had- there was a group of friends that were, you know, we were growing gardens and things at the time in the city. And I got some books. 00;21;02;19 - 00;21;27;12 Dave Ring You know, Eliot Coleman was one of the first books that I read, and he's, of course, extremely inspiring. And, and then it just it- We were, we were moving to get, you know, outdoors and do something totally different than, than what we'd done to that point because we're both from the Midwest and, and so then when I got out, got out there, it was pretty easy to find a farm to connect with that needed an internship. 00;21;27;12 - 00;21;46;01 Dave Ring So I did an internship in Placerville, and it was definitely an accumulation of all these events that, that kind of just further instilled that we were on the right track, doing the right thing, and no turning back. 00;21;46;03 - 00;22;11;13 Kelsey Timmerman Timmerman: So in the, in the last 12 months, we've experienced the - still in - global pandemic. And right at the beginning when the first lockdown was coming down, like, shelves, grocery stores were, were bare. There was concern of the food system. The meatpacking industry got shut down. And so I think maybe we started to question a little bit, like, the just in time food system. 00;22;11;13 - 00;22;16;29 Kelsey Timmerman But like, what has the pandemic taught us about our food system? 00;22;17;03 - 00;22;59;19 Dave Ring Dave: Well, the the first thing that we learned was that Americans were eating a huge percentage of their meals every week at restaurants. So the, the processing of meats and things are what we noticed first, because when meat processors are selling the majority of a product to restaurants, then they're packaged in bulk. And so then when restaurants were shut down and people actually start cooking at home, changing over all that machinery and the distribution network and everything, to be able to package things for consumers versus restaurants is not something that could happen overnight. 00;22;59;20 - 00;23;03;01 Dave Ring So that was one of the bigger hiccups in the beginning. 00;23;03;02 - 00;23;12;21 Kelsey Timmerman Timmerman: So that's why we saw the milk being dumped out and the pigs being killed. At the same time. We saw long lines at the food banks. It seemed like such a discrepancy. 00;23;12;24 - 00;23;39;12 Dave Ring Dave: Yeah, because restaurants buy different food than grocery shoppers. Also, you know, we saw this whole kind of back to the kitchen movement, which we saw, I think, in after the ‘08 crash too. A lot of people went out and built gardens this year. They got a lot of new cooking supplies, and they started baking at home. There's a shortage on yeast, and yeast and flour were so hard to get for such a long time. 00;23;39;15 - 00;24;10;00 Dave Ring But then people also realized that the food distribution was, wasn't localized, so they were totally dependent on things coming from other places. And while those of us, you know, who deal with that kind of thing all the time, like, yeah, that's, that's true, it's a problem. A lot of people were completely shocked to figure that out. And so there kind of was this buy local push for a little bit. 00;24;10;00 - 00;24;18;08 Dave Ring But then, you know, as things do you know the, the page gets turned and people kind of go back to not worrying too much about it. 00;24;18;11 - 00;24;45;09 Kelsey Timmerman Timmerman: Yeah. So often sustainability revolves around using less, conserving, reducing. Into a culture like ours that's obsessed with more, that can seem like kind of a bummer. So like, how has your life and aligning your career and diets in this way, how’s it added to, like, the joy in your life as opposed to subtracted from it? 00;24;45;11 - 00;25;21;14 Dave Ring Dave: I would say quality over quantity. The food that we eat on a daily basis, that we're so fortunate and blessed to be able to have access to, you know, taste so much better. And I think the, the pastured meat revolution, which we've seen in this country, you know, grow on a, on a nice, steady scale over the years, is built on the idea that people can eat less meat. 00;25;21;17 - 00;25;46;24 Dave Ring They can eat really good quality meat if they eat less meat. So then if you're not, you know, eating, you know, three patties of breakfast sausage in the morning and a hamburger at lunch. And you know, something else at dinner. Well, you know, you can eat meat less often and pay for a quality product and get something that's a whole lot better, you know, and then it's- your doctor's probably going to like that, too, because you're, you're taking care of your body. 00;25;46;24 - 00;25;56;00 Dave Ring You're eating more plant based foods and things like that. So I think that's really what that's built on is, is being able to- Less is more. 00;25;56;02 - 00;26;27;22 Sara Ring Sara: I would probably just add one more thing about, you know, kind of something positive that's come out of the pandemic. It's been, it's been a challenge, you know, with the store and the deli and just the ups and downs and, you know, everything that everyone else is going through, you know, too and maybe different degrees or circumstances. But it's felt so good to be able to be there for our customers and nourish them with good food. 00;26;27;23 - 00;26;54;08 Sara Ring You know, what they're used to, what they like. There's been a lot of new people that have been introduced to, like, our soups, for example, which pretty much just get thrown together with whatever we need to use to be sustainable. So you never know what you're going to get. You never really follow a recipe, and people are just blown away, and it just feels so good to give people that nourishment, that positivity, and spread that love through food. 00;26;54;10 - 00;26;55;22 Sara Ring In that way. 00;26;55;24 - 00;27;27;00 Dave Ring Dave: If you can get to the point where you can actually do the work, you know, working out on a farm, you know, in the outdoors, and you get involved in that rhythm of the day to day, chores and the seasons, and you become more in tune with nature and the seasons, and you know what's coming next. And, and there's a, there's a deep, deep, you know, I'm not a super spiritual guy. 00;27;27;01 - 00;27;56;02 Dave Ring I mean, I'm spiritual, but, you know, kind of in a quiet way. But there's a deep grounding to that, that you just feel at peace all throughout your body once you're engrossed in the, the rhythms of nature. And I think that's a big part of what we're missing, you know, in our, in our busy world, because we're so disconnected from farms, you know, nature, the environment. 00;27;56;03 - 00;28;00;08 Dave Ring I mean, on a day to day basis, so many people have so little contact with nature. 00;28;00;10 - 00;28;20;19 Kelsey Timmerman Timmerman: I've even heard people talk about how important it is for them to, when they're working out in their garden to take their shoes off and to just be out there barefoot. And I was on the farm in Hawaii, and I did that all day barefoot. Oh my gosh, I had blisters all over my feet. [Laughter] 00;28;20;21 - 00;28;23;04 Dave Ring Dave: Maybe take it a little bit at a time. 00;28;23;06 - 00;28;24;27 Kelsey Timmerman Timmerman: Ease into it. Yeah, it was painful. 00;28;24;28 - 00;28;45;25 Dave Ring Dave: But it is. That's a thing, I mean, like like and, and Indiana is so great. The Midwest is so great for that because, you know, you can walk outside in the grass and we don't have, you know, scorpions or fire ants, anything like that. And it's a great- And there is something to it. You do feel, like I said, I'm not even one to really believe in energy, but I feel like there is something there. 00;28;45;27 - 00;28;55;01 Kelsey Timmerman Timmerman: Yeah. Thank you so much for taking the time and being part of the Facing Project, Sara and Dave Ring, thank you. 00;28;55;03 - 00;28;55;14 Sara Ring Sara: Thank you. 00;28;55;16 - 00;29;02;04 Dave Ring Dave: Thanks, Kelsey, appreciate it. [Progressive indie rock music concludes] 00;29;02;06 - 00;29;30;17 Kelsey Timmerman Timmerman: The ecological footprint of an average American is 23.6 acres. That means we consume what 23.6 acres of our planet can produce. If all 7 billion Earthlings were Americans, we'd need five planets. [Theme music] 00;29;30;20 - 00;29;52;10 J.R. Jamison We want to thank Doctor Adam Kuban in the Honors College of Ball State University for leading the Facing Sustainability Project. The book is available at FacingProject.com and at the Press page. Facing Sustainability was inspired by the efforts of Cheryl Swingly, Annette Rose, and Barb Steadman. In this episode, Carl Frost played Dave Ring with story by Becca Foerder and Bryn Marlow. 00;29;52;12 - 00;30;12;16 Kelsey Timmerman Timmerman: To listen to past episodes of this program, visit IndianaPublicRadio.org/TheFacingProject. From there, you can subscribe to the podcast, where you'll get episodes of the Facing Project delivered to your device each month. Listeners can contribute stories or volunteer to share the stories of others with the Facing Project that may appear on the show. More information at FacingProject.com/InspireAction. 00;30;12;18 - 00;30;18;22 Kelsey Timmerman And to continue the conversation about this episode, find us on Facebook at The Facing Project. 00;30;18;23 - 00;30;39;22 J.R. Jamison Jamison: The Facing Project is recorded at Indiana Public Radio at Ball State University in beautiful Muncie, Indiana, and is produced by the amazing producer extraordinaire Sean Ashcraft. The show is distributed nationally through PRX. We are your host, Kelsey Timmerman and J.R. Jamison. And until next time, we wish you the courage to share your own story and the empathy to listen to others. [Theme music]