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[Jen Blackmer] This week on Pop of Culture, the pools are open. So we're diving into our archives.

 [Luke Jones] We'll visit a museum exhibition that speaks to our present moment from 80 years in the past. [Jen] We'll spin up some pottery... 

[Luke] And spin live performances from local musicians, along with a trip to the Farmers' Market. 

[Jen] That's all in this encore edition of Pop of Culture.

[Luke] Support for Pop of Culture comes from Stallings Wealth Management and from you. You may have heard about large gifts to NPR. Those donations are important, but they don't bring back the funding to IPR. Your support pays for the programs you rely on, especially local programs like this one, and the people like me who create them. Top of culture exists for you and because of you. Give today at indianapublicradio.org.

?? [Jen] From Indiana Public Radio, this is Pop of Culture. I'm Jen Blackmer.

 [Luke] And I'm Luke Jones. Most of our team is enjoying the unofficial start to Summer, so we're walking, not running to dive into the deep end of our archives. 

[Jen] Although I wonder why we're not enjoying the unofficial start of summer. I want to enjoy the unofficial.

 [Luke] Someone has to work, Jen.

[Jen] Oh, okay. 

[Luke] Let's start with a piece from earlier this year when Michelle and I went down the street and across the globe. [Michelle] We are sitting at a large wooden table in one of the galleries at the David Owsley Museum of Art on the Ball State University campus, and sitting next to me is Robert LaFrance, and he is the museum director here. And we are here at this table, surrounded by books that Bob's gonna tell us more about. Bob, tell us about this exhibit that we are now sitting in the middle of.

[Robert Bob LaFrance] Great. I'm happy to. The show is called Nora Krug Belonging, and it runs from February 19 until June 13, 2026. What you're seeing here on the table are many of Nora Krug's publications. Now, Nora is a contemporary German American artist and illustrator, lives and works in New York, is teaching in New York right now, and we're very fortunate to have this exhibition of her work here on campus. [Michelle] And this is I mean, and correct me if I'm wrong, but I know that it's been a little while at least since I've seen an exhibit like this one, an exhibition like this one at DOMA.

[Bob] Well, actually, it's a fairly new thing for us. One of the main points I want people to take away from this is it's the real celebration of illustration, the art of illustration. 

[Michelle] So talk a little bit about Noah Krug and why she is

a little different when it comes to most people would call some of these things belonging, her most popular one graphic novels, but it's another level, isn't it? And you referred to it as a graphic memoir. [Bob] A graphic memoir. This is a book in which Nora explores her family and her heritage. It's called belonging. Actually, the German title is heimat. And heimat's one of those wonderful German words. It doesn't exactly translate into English. But many people translate it simply as "homeland."

But as Nora does, she calls it belonging because heimat is really that sense of where you come from, maybe culturally, not just physically or where you feel that you belong. And so that's where she got the title from. [Michelle] Okay. Well, we've got a lot to see, so let's get started. [Bob] Okay.

So we began on this level with an explanation of belonging, the book and what it's about, the main themes that go out through the book. The beginning of the book starts with interaction between Nora and an older woman she finds on a rooftop in New York City. And she finds out that this older woman was a concentration camp survivor and had spotted Nora as a German. Yeah. And this is a kind of guilt that Nora carries with her, even though she had nothing to do with the war. She was born decades after the war was over. She still carries that with her, and she decides to explore that part of her German heritage throughout the book Belonging.

[Michelle] It's a life changing moment, on a rooftop with a stranger. 

[Bob] Yeah. Yeah, that's There's some other images here, another case where Nora, as a young woman, traveled to Japan. She meets some people there, some Japanese people. They say, Where are you from? When she says, Germany, look how they respond. 

[Michelle] Oh, my. 

[Bob] They immediately say, heil Hitler, and they connect her with World War II. Again, she was born in the 1970s. She has nothing to do with the war, yet she carries this with her. 

[Michelle] Oh. It literally says whenever I traveled abroad, her guilt traveled with her.

[Bob] Yeah. Powerful. But one of the most powerful things

is this set of photographs in which Nora placed photographs that she had taken as a young lady, touring in a Nazi concentration camp with her schoolmates, as a teenager. And she has these photographs here of some of her schoolmates after the tour, and you can just see the anguish on their faces after learning what happened 

[Michelle] Yeah.  Just devastated. 

[Bob] And yet she juxtaposed those or compared them with photographs that Nora bought at flea markets of Nazi soldiers, many of whom could have worked in those concentration camps here playing with their pets as if they had normal lives. Yes. And those atrocities are just swept under the rug.

Yeah. So it's a strange juxtaposition between the atrocities of the war and then the way that these soldiers are acting in these photographs.

 [Michelle] Yeah. There are photos of them petting dogs, holding looks to be lambs. I mean, just these very joyful photos in their uniforms might I add. But it's just... Oh, the contrast. Yeah.

[Bob] The other half of the room over here, including one of these cases, includes illustrations by Nora Krug for a number of different things. I like to say she used a conventional comic book format to tell very unconventional stories. 

[Michelle] Yes. Like you said, these are tackling very difficult topics in a format that we normally think of as light.

[Bob] It's comic books. Right? Yeah. 

[Michelle] Love that. Well, we have more to see. [Bob] Shall we go upstairs? Absolutely. Let's do that.

So this part of the show is based on Nora's adaptation and illustrations for Timothy Snyder's book On Tyrrany. And you can see here at the beginning of the exhibition in a case, a copy, Nora's copy of Timothy Snyder's original small book, which is text only. [Michelle] Yep. [Bob] And you can see her beginning to sketch out ideas and motifs that she uses and expands into all the artwork that you see on the walls in these upper floors. 

[Michelle] I love this. I love all the page markings. I love how she did little sketches on other pieces of paper and stapled it to the book itself. [Bob] You can see her starting with words and then creating visual ideas out of the words.  And putting them down on the page.

 [Michelle] Wow. So, so beyond just your two dimensional

[Bob] Yeah. So what I suggest that people do when they come to the upper level of this show on top floor is they grab a copy of On Tyranny. We have several around the room. And if you look at the labels on the wall, it will tell you what page number the drawing is for. Wow. Yeah. And it goes through all the lessons. There's 20 lessons in total, and it goes through each one, and you can see the different phases of the development of ideas. For example,

in this one, you can see her original Nora's original line drawing and pencil of this pig with a Russian writing on the chest there. And this goes back to the idea that Stalin started classifying wealthy farmers as pigs and kept repeating that they were pigs. They were pigs. Well, if you dehumanize someone enough and turn them into a pig, it makes it easier to slaughter them. Yep. Later. So this particular lesson is lessons for take responsibility for the face of the world. It's about taking on symbols and words and language.

That are problematic like this that dehumanize people. Wow. And the final lesson is a really interesting one. Lesson 20, it's part of the epilogue. Be as courageous as you can.

Wow. So even in the face of difficulties you should still be as courageous as you can to fight against them. 

[Michelle] That leads me to the question, Bob, why was this so important for DOMA to have this exhibit? Now, what prompted you to say, This is we need to do this now.

[Bob] Well, really, I did want to bring in something with illustration and animation. That's such a growing field and so important to our students. And then, again, there are various tyrranies occurring across the planet right now. And these are great lessons to learn. One of the really important lessons to go back a little bit is Lesson 11. Investigate. I want to encourage people to investigate everything. There's an image that recurs as a motif in Nora's illustrations of the man with no eyes.

It's when you lose your ability to look and to investigate that tyrants are able to do whatever they like to do essentially. So investigative reporting, investigating for yourself. Trying to sort the difference between fact and fiction? 

[Michelle] Absolutely. I don't think I have used the word vetting more than I have in the last few years. I mean, everything I say is, well, let me vet that. I'll get back to you. I need to vet it first. And I think we all need to be doing that a little more than we have maybe in the past. So I love the Lesson 11 Investigate. That's a great one.

Well, thank you so much. Bob, for showing us around the exhibit, remind us again how long this will be on display. 

[Bob] The show opened on February 19, and it closes on June 13, 2026. And for more information, what's the website for DOMA? You can always go to bsu.edu/DOMA. 

[Michelle] Perfect. Thank you so much once again. This is a wonderful exhibit. Thank you. 

[Luke] We recorded that piece in February of this year. The exhibition Noah Krug Belonging will be up at DOMA through June 13.

?? ?? ?? [Jen] We're listening back to some of our favorites this week, like when our co host Kara DuQuette spoke with local pottery legend John Peterson.

[Kara] Can you tell us how you got into making pottery? [John Peterson] I was a lucky enough to have a high school art teacher in Skokie, Illinois, who had been a Ball State graduate and, you know, a ceramic enthusiast. So I was like, a junior in high school when myself and some of my friends started taking art classes, and there was a potter's wheel and lots of clay. So that was my introduction. I bought a potter's wheel when I was a senior in high school.

And it was kind of my summer activity with Bob Stein, my good friend. We both were making pots, and I had a garage in a little neighborhood. We turned into a studio and, you know, spent the summer, you know, making pots and, you know, being artistic.

[Kara] So you really liked it since you bought a wheel. Did you then build a kiln? 

[John] No, we never had a kiln. We didn't think that far ahead. We were happy just making things. I remember we took some of the pots over to the high school next door, Nutrier High School. There was a sympathetic art teacher there that fired some of our work during the summer. And, you know, at that age, you know, things just kind of transpire, and I don't know what happened to all those things or not, but they, you know, we were full of enthusiasm.

[Kara] John had so much more to tell us about how he met his business partner, Alan Patrick and how they started the renowned Bethel Pike Pottery Studios. He also talked about his mentor at Ball State, Marvin Reichel, and how he's still impacting John's life. That's where our conversation picks up. Now, what inspires you to continue potting over time is part you talked about the importance of [John] Marvin Reichel in your life and his teaching teachers. Is that why you became a teacher? I think so. [John] You know, everything that I did kind of I can go back and find a connection to Marvin. Marvin was a

you know, he taught lifestyle as much as he taught art. You know, he did a lot of work on his house, had beautiful gardens, you know, had every element of his life, you know, had an aesthetic that he pursued. So I think that was the that's the kind of thing I like to teach.

To have an artistic life. And then everything kind of falls into place after that. 

[Kara] I can see that from your. I've had the pleasure of going out and seeing the space that you're talking about, and it's very inspiring. Can you tell us a little bit about your upcoming spring sale?

[John] Well, we have probably the 50th, you know, Spring Open House. And backtrack a little bit because Alan and I started the Bethel Pottery, and then, you know, about four or five years into it, we split it up because he had a certain direction he wanted to go, and I had a little different direction. Alan was more interested in wholeselling.

So, you know, that was a bigger part of his business. And I was going to art fairs and selling retail. So, you know, we'd always had a spring show. And after we split up, I think we kind of missed a few years, but then I started having a spring show again. And, about 20 years ago, we had some friends that wanted to take classes, and I was giving some classes to some people in my studio. And, uh,
and so we kind of expanded that. So now we have about 15 people. Some of them have been coming for 20 years. And the school is loosely a school. It's like a more like a Clay Club, you know, and some wonderful people and some very good potters, and some of these people have their own studios, too, and this. So we started having the students sell their work at the spring show in the school, and then I have my work in my studio. 

[Kara] So and Alan, is he still on the property? 

[John] That's still on the property, yeah. Mm hmm. So the commune becameÉAlan quit making pots about about 15 years ago. And he was always a painter in school. So he just continued. Now he's a he's a painter. 

[Kara] Wonderful. 

[John] So, this June 7th and 8th, we have our Open House. We have the students' work. There's 15 students, and we have my work. We have some music. We have some, kind of a clay Olympics, if you'd like, where you can...

You can challenge other people. The kids can make a pot or two, if they want. And there's some food out there, probably. And it's a nice event. You know, it's a great event. I saw Ron Richcreek showing some children how to pot. Yeah. But now, what's the Olympics? What do you mean you can challenge? We had, you know, who can throw the tallest cylinder? Oh. You know, who can pull the longest handle and that kind of stuff. You know. Nice. Hm.

[Kara] Well, I would like to know how do you how do you balance your form and functionality when you create pots?

[John] You know, I started out doing, you know, functional wear, utilitarian wear. Mm hm. And still do. I think that's just my nature. You know, that's more satisfying to me is to make something that people can use. And, because I use my pots, you know, so I have an everyday experience testing everything I make. And, you know, hopefully, people will have to get the same feeling out of these pieces that I get. And I think a lot of people do. 

[Kara] Yeah, I ask you that because you make such beautiful things, but it's very clear that you can utilize them. [John] Yeah. And Yeah. And there's, you know, there's a great tradition of functional pottery, you know, and I like all, you know, you know, all avenues of ceramics. I appreciate it and enjoy it. But, you know, this is kind of my thing, so. [Kara] Well, is there anything else you'd like to tell us about your pottery or your art?

[John] Uh you know, I'm 80-years-old this year. And. So, you know, we're starting to think about winding down a little bit, maybe. You know, I used to do I used to do, you know, 12, 15 art fairs all around the country every year. And so the teaching classes kind of augmented that part of my income.

You know, I'm kind of a little bit of a dinosaur, and, you know, starting probably, you know, 15 years ago, with the Internet online exposure. And if I was a potter starting today, that would probably be where I would start, you know, a lot of there's a lot of people that sell work online all over the world and to be connect, you know, there's different connections that you have to make now than when I started. [Kara] Well, and you made them by going places.

[John] You know, we started having shows out at the well, we were students. So we had a community of friends, you know, from Ball State. And I've got a mailing list of around 800 people. And if you look through it, a lot of them are, you know, older, you know. So actually, Renee Petri, my daughter, lives in California. And probably, you know, seven or eight years ago, she started helping me get on Facebook and kind of updating my way of exposure. And we did, you know, made a big difference for the shows. We started drawing younger people, you know, and, you know, people that are, you know, building a household are the people that buy pots, you know? Mm hmm. Uh, there's the conversation of, you know, all the old friends that say, you know, we love your pots. We have lots of them. You know? [laughter] So you need to, you know, you need to keep getting new people.

[Kara] Well, I'm glad that you're doing that and adapting and that you brought the movement here, and it continues. Yeah, it continues.

[John] Okay, it continues, yeah. Thank you so much, John. I've got a you know, we all kind of after years and years and years of doing something, it's hard to, uh, see how people see you. And it's hard to kind of accept that people see you as, you know, as the, uh, you know, the master or the senior person, you know. 

[Kara] Oh, yeah, 'cause you're as old as you feel, right? 

[John] Right. And you never you never expect that. Well, but, you know, I'm glad I've been able to inspire some people. 

[Kara] That's that. Oh, yeah. 

[Jen] That interview first aired in Season 2 Episode 22. This year's John Peterson Pottery Spring Sale and show is June 6th and 7th

?? ?? [Jen] This is Pop of Culture. I'm Jen Blackmer. 

[Luke] And I'm Luke Jones. We're doing some leisurely laps through our archives today. Jess Jones is a singer and songwriter from Pendleton, Indiana. He joined Michelle Kinsey in the Pop studios. 

[Michelle] When did all of this start for you? When did you start playing guitar? When did you start writing songs? Give us a little backstory.

[Jess Jones] Been writing, I guess, stories and poems since, you know, like grade school era, and, you know, it never stopped. I did a bunch of short stories and stuff in high school and started to learn guitar when I was, I think, 25. So I was a little later than most to come to an instrument that started out as just therapy. Like, after work, I would just come home and it'd just be me and the guitar and I'd kind of chill out for a while and learn some chords and practice. And eventually, I got comfortable enough to try and learn songs.

[Michelle] Yeah. So self taught? 

[Jess] Yep.  Self taught guitar. 

[Michelle] So really interesting that you've been a writer, you kind of get your creativity out through poetry and essay, you know, narrative prose, those kind of things. What was it like taking it to the next level of song describing that process? Awkward.

[Jess] I guess awkward's the best word. I wanted to challenge myself. Like, I playing a bunch of other people's songs, and before I guess you're a songwriter and musician, you're a lover of music first. Right. So you're playing a bunch of other people's songs and learning them as best you can. And I guess I just got bored, wanted to see if I could put anything I'd written to music, if it would be possible, if I could, just do it. Yeah. And I'm gonna play one of those for you. It started out as a poem in high school. It's on my first album. And I went back to it when I was probably 27 or 28, finished it, and put music to it.

?? Older than a kid will admit. ?? Empty handed, just waiting on the rain.

?? I never had a part to fill. ?? So learned to love best inside of my brain. ?? The strangers pass by. ?? Hometown had never felt so strange. ?? It's easy to ignore all the same. Knowing that some d they'll fly away.

?? I should have sat down once or twice and tell myself it's easier to go nowhere. ?? Tell myself it's easier to go nowhere. ?? ??

?? No, that Brain fusing in. Never get out. You just learn to drift away. ?? Spend your time how you can. ?? Do your best too. He's all of life's pain. ?? Should have sat down once or twice and tell myself it's easier to go no
?? Tell myself it's easier to go nowhere. ?? If I'd seen the south start. Would have ran until I grew up ?? Would have made a new name. 
?? To fly past from wherever I came. 

[Michelle] So what musicians, what other musicians, writers who have inspired you along the way on this journey? 

[Jess] Well, as a kid, riding in my mom's car, it was always Motown stuff. Nice. And with dad on Saturday mornings, he would whip out his old records, and it would be like classic country. So I got appreciation for both sides of, like, the dark storytellers and songwriters and, like, the more popular and, I don't want to say lyrically driven, but, melody. Now, that's kind of where it started, but as far as wanting to create, I guess Bruce Springsteen. When I first started to hear Springsteen songs when I was probably ten. Yeah. I stole my mom's Springsteen CD and went and listened to it and like, halfway through Thunder Road, I was drawn in. I was in love. Uh huh. It was that moment. 

[Michelle] Absolutely. So all of those things kind of coalesce. They came together to form kind of your own sound. We were talking about this a little bit before. We started recording, and I know it's difficult, but for those who haven't heard, how would you describe sound. Because I'm sure you weren't into that a lot. say,  Yeah, what do you do? Well, I'm a musician. Well, what kind of stuff do you do? 

[Jess] Right. The most broad question is, what do you play? Well, I play guitar and I try to sing. And I play a little harmonica. There you go. But, you know, folky. Think Neil Young. Think acoustic Springsteen, in the veins of classic Dylan, that kind of stuff. 

[Michelle] Yeah. Why is it that particular style that works or meshes with kind of your lyrics? How did those two styles, like the words, the things you're writing, and that sound how did that come

[Jess] Probably because it's what I listen to the most. And it had the biggest effect on me, and that's, you know, you write and you play what you know. And that's the biggest inspiration to me musically. Was that sound. So. That's where I'm at right now, but, you know, it could change. Five years from now, two years from now, who knows? [Michelle] Yeah, yeah, inspiration comes from everywhere. Right. What inspires you these days when it comes to sitting down and writing your

[Jess] Oh,  Lord. Mostly, it's just putting in the time, like just planting yourself in the chair and just writing whatever comes to your head. Eventually, if you do it long enough or often enough, I found that something will come. I'll get an idea. But once in a while, I'll be driving and just get, like, a line or a phrase, and I'll just write it down. Or a title, and later, I'll come back to it, work on it. 
?? Lot of time passes by. 
?? Days to go dark and bright. 
?? Otherwhile feeling my time. 
?? Slip slowly for me.
??

?? See them all come and go. 
?? Pass by in the blink of an eye. 
?? No second chances this way. 
?? Wind blows hard in my face. 'Cause slowly, the days go by. 
?? Years are quicker than they seem. 
?? The white lines on the freeway drive 
?? slowly away from me.
??
??
?? Lady gives me all that I need, 
?? Gives it, then she takes it away. Dumb struck as she walks. 
?? Slowly away from me. 
?? Slowly, the days go by. 
?? Yes are quicker than they seem. 
?? White lines on the freeway drive. 
?? Slowly away from me.
?? ?? ?? ??
?? Lot of time passes by. ?? Days the go dark É 

[Michelle] Do you try to be pretty intentional about it? Do you try to write something every day or no pressure. Just wait till it comes to you. 

[Jess] Generally, wait till it comes. Unless it's wintertime, things are slow, and it's like, I need to do something because I'm gonna go crazy.  So sometimes I'll force myself to be creative, and that's where I guess the album I'm working on right now. I think it was late November, early December. I was going out of my mind with, you know, winter boredom. You know? And I decided to just sit down. Let's try to come up with something, and one song turned into three and then turn into eight, like, Okay, I'm proud that I've done this. Over the course of a couple weeks that happened. And they kind of fit together thematically. So I felt accomplished. Like, okay, maybe I have something here for spring or summertime. I'll just work on it steadily from here.

[Michelle] Yeah. Do you find that that's usually the case once you kind of get in a groove and things are going that you start to kind of crank out more? Is that what has happened in your past albums? I should say, you've got three. Right, that are out and available right now.

[Jess] Yeah, everything's digital. All on my website, jessjonesmusic.com. But yeah, starting out, I guess I had such a backlog of songs that I didn't have any trouble coming up with new ones. It was just more of like picking out which ones were the best for, I guess, the first couple albums, for the most part and deciding what to do, what to flesh out, and what to record. Now it's a little more digging. A little more intentional. Yeah. Trying to be creative. 

[Michelle] Yeah. So what have you learned along the way? I mean, it's not as if you necessarily had a roadmap of how to do this. Like, singer songwriter, I'm going to get my stuff out there, 101. Right, that you can just pick up and follow. So how did you kind of, like, learn the business? What have you learned along the way, and what are the next steps for you? 

[Jess] Oh, baby steps. Starting out getting advice from any other musician you know who's willing to share. Yeah. That's been key meeting some other folks who can do recording or tell you what to look for as far as recommendations like microphones, even or other venues to just reach out to, like, you know, they might like your sound here, reach out to them. So a lot of it's word of mouth. A lot of it's talking and networking with other musicians and just being brave enough to ask venues. Hey, do you want music? Are you looking for more?

[Michelle] Yeah, right, see? And I just think you hit on it right there is putting yourself out there. And not being afraid to do that and hitting up anybody and everybody to, like, Hey, you know, I've got a set full of you know, original tunes. Do you want to hear them or covers or Do you find that you mix it up? Do you do mostly covers? 

[Jess] Mostly, I do originals. Oh, fantastic. I'm not I couldn't do just covers, but, you know, I'll sprinkle some in there. Whatever's inspiring me for the week or for the month, I'll have two or three that'll make it in there once in a while. Absolutely.

[Michelle] Wonderful. So what is next for you? You mentioned you you're almost done with another album. 

[Jess] Right. Number four. Number four. 

[Michelle] Do you have a title for that one yet? Not yet. 

[Jess] I have a few ideas for the title, but I haven't landed on one yet. Yeah. So we'll see what goes from there, and I think it'll have you know, it'll be full. It'll be 12 or 13 tracks probably by the time I'm done. I saved some from last time, just to include different on a different project or, you know. [Michelle] You know, and I've heard it said that if you are a singer songwriter, a musician, you've got to and it's not narcissistic in any way, but you've got to please yourself first, or else you're gonna have a really difficult time. Right. Getting out there and playing the stuff if it's not something you feel really good about and if it is not hitting something inside you first and foremost. 

[Jess] Right, if you're not writing something directly from whatever it is, wherever it comes from inside, then I couldn't see anyone else, you know, bonding with it, either. Mm.

[Michelle] Absolutely. Yeah. What do you want people to get out of what you do? And then tell me a little bit about what you get out of it. Why is it so important for you to do what you do? And what do you want other people to feel when they listen to your music? 

[Jess] That's a tough question right there. I guess it's therapeutic to just play it. Yeah. Like, to have anyone want to hear it is, um, I don't know, beautiful, in a way. It's the most rewarding spiritually, I guess. But to get out of it, I hope they enjoy it. I hope it makes them think, maybe a little bit. I hope they realize that songwriting is an art, and it's hard fought art, I think, especially in this day and age, just, you know, to find people happy to sit and listen for those things. Yeah.

[Michelle] And to appreciate when people are doing when they're putting themselves out there, really, you know, 'cause I mean, any musician that plays out, I mean, that's not an easy thing to do to put yourself out there like that. But then to do that with original music, that's another level. 

[Jess] It is. Jess, thank you so much for coming in and sharing your music with us.

[Jess] Thank you for having me. Thanks for putting up with me. It's a pleasure. 

?? It's just a sigh from the corner of your eye,
?? it was just a phrase whispered in the night. By you. Well, I remember a time. It wasn't easy. 
?? To get a hand the flota sound,
?? Seeing something new from here? 
?? It was like a feeling but being lost. 
?? Like a pun prick of light on the horizon. 
?? You see it fading away from you now?
?? Here we are five leaves later. Headed somewhere. I can't see. 
?? Maybe South. Maybe Oklahoma. Can you come? Can you save me?
?? You twist my arm to make a point. 
?? Perspective seems to confuse me. 
?? You gaining ground in your age. 
?? You two steps back you're like a win.
?? ?? Spin me around, make me feel. 
?? Don't make me regret what I see.
?? Watch the daybreak. Across the sky. 
?? When was the last time you saw it through? 
?? Here we are five leaves later. Had it somewhere. I can't see. Maybe South. Maybe Oklahoma. Can you come? Can you save me? Can you save me?

?? [Jen] Luke, it's one of my favorite times of year - Farmers' Market season. And we thought we'd revisit our chat with this young farmer. 

[Riley] My name is Riley McDermott, and I'm from Monroe County in Illinois, which is just about 40 minutes away from St. Louis. And it's pretty much a very rural community that also has that urban side since we are so close to the city. 

[Kara] Hello, Riley. Thanks for talking with us today. I met Riley McDermott at a Farmer's Market this summer, and we enjoyed talking with each other. Yeah, it was so much fun. 

[Riley] Yeah. You know, Kara came up to me at the Farmers Market, and she was looking at my products. And then when she introduced herself in this opportunity, I was a little surprised. But, you know, it's really shown me, like, how far my business has taken me and how far of a reach I've had. So it's a pretty cool opportunity that I have here.

[Kara] Yes, and I'm so happy that you're here to speak with us. Can you tell us specifically what you do? 

[Riley] Yeah, so being from Monroe County, I've been connected to agriculture my entire life. You know, I've grown up on a farm, and I've always been excited to be an FFA. And it's just really my personality really is FFA and agriculture, and it's kind of funny to say that. Um, but yeah, really, in 2021, I started my business Tilled to Table, where I was just selling produce off a road for about 5 hours. I would reach maybe ten customers. And then in 2022, I actually expanded to become a part of the Monroe County Farmers Market, which reaches almost 100 customers a day, and it really has helped me expand my business into something much further than I ever thought I would even reach. So I really just am excited to see how much further I can take this and how many doors it has opened for me already. 

[Kara] Well, how old were you when you started this business? 

[Riley] I was 15 when I started selling stuff, but, you know, I've been in the garden and helping my grandma with canning ever since I could walk. So it really has been in my family for a very long time. 

[Kara] Wow. So how many family recipes do you utilize when you can?

[Riley] I would say there's about six or seven recipes that have been passed down throughout my entire family. And the thing is, whenever you are selling processed goods, you do have to apply to the food handler certification and the Cottage Food Act license. And you have to follow those regulations to make sure that what you are producing falls within those food safety guidelines and is safe for you to sell to customers. So I actually got kind of lucky. I guess my, you know, great, great grandparents kind of knew what they were doing because my recipes actually did fall underneath those guidelines. And I was extremely excited to be able to share those recipes that so many of my friends and family have loved for years to even more people within my community. But there are definitely some recipes like carrot cake jam that I just, you know, found on Pinterest one day and thought I would try it and has turned out to be a big hit for my business.

[Kara] Wonderful. And you told us there are some things that you have to abide by in terms of quality of your product. And so what are some of those things in the cultivation of your vegetables and in the processing that you must do? You said some of the recipes followed those guidelines. So can you walk us through maybe one of them?  

[Riley] Yea sure.  So I would say the biggest guidelines that you have to follow apply to whenever you are making tomato based products like tomato soup or salsa. And that is because tomatoes are a very acidic vegetable. And so they have to follow the pH guidelines. So if your recipe falls under 4.6 pH, then you are good to go because it is acidic enough that bacteria won't grow. And so there's definitely a lot of science behind this. You know, it's not just baking and cooking. You know, that's what cooking and baking is, is science. And so I think it's also really cool, and that's why I do plan on going into crop sciences when I go up to the University of Urbana Champagne in the fall. I'm pretty excited to major in that. But there's so many different aspects that come alongside of it that definitely start in the soil, you know? I start my production around January or February, planting the seeds inside and helping them grow, transferring them into the garden around April and May. Harvesting them around July and August and then processing those vegetables as they come in, as well. And so really just making sure my production stays local, follow those guidelines and stays legal and safe for my customers is my top priority. 

[Kara] Well, you do a wonderful job. I just opened some pickled green tomatoes. Oh, yeah. Yesterday that you made, and they were fabulous. 

[Riley] That's awesome. Yeah, I've actually sold out of those, so

[Kara] And I want to know what you've learned or how you've changed through this whole process. 
[Riley] Yeah, well, definitely. I used to be extremely shy. And as a freshman, I participated in the FFA Creed, which is basically you memorize the Creed in FFA. It's five paragraphs long. And it basically talks about the morals and values that come with FFA. You memorize it, answer some questions about it, and it really helps freshmen get into a career or pathway of public speaking and building their confidence. And I definitely think that's where my level of confidence started. And starting this business, having to talk to hundreds of people every week has really helped me break out of my shell, become who I am today, and really opened so many doors for me in the future. I've met so many people. I'm really close with the national FFA president, Thaddeus Bergschneider. He and I are really good friends, as well. And so, really, this business has brought so much more than just a little bit of money. It's brought me opportunities of a lifetime. 

[Kara] Oh, that's wonderful. Connections, and it feels like you've really you did a lot more than memorize the creed. 

[Riley] Yeah. I definitely did. 

[Kara] What do you what will you do with the business once you go off to college?

[Riley] Well, a big part of the business does happen during the summertime, so I will be home for that. But during the preparation months of the winter, my family will kind of have to step it up a little bit. I'm hoping that they will be able to help me with that. And hopefully I can continue my business throughout my college days. But I definitely do want to see Tilled to Table continue, as it is something I built from scratch and is something I am extremely proud of.

[Kara] Wonderful. Can you tell everybody where they could see what Tilled to Table homegrown veggies is doing online? 

[Riley] Awesome. Okay. So, I post everything that I'm doing on Facebook under Riley's Tilled to Table, and I post any new products that I come out with just really what I've been doing in the garden and that I make an announcement of when I'll be at the Monroe County Farmers Market. 

[Kara] Riley, thank you so much for sharing your story with us, and you have done some amazing things, and it continues.

[Riley] Awesome. Well, thank you so much for having me. [Kara] Of course. [Riley] Yeah, I mean, this is what I do. You know, I love to talk about my business, how I'm connected to agriculture. And it is also something that I'm looking for in my future career is being able to advocate for agriculture and those who put in the work throughout the industry.

[Kara] That's wonderful. That's needed. So we're glad you're out there advocating.

[Jen] Our arts calendar will be back next week. Right now, we're gonna hear a little extra from our segment Behind the Song recorded live at the Songwriter Sessions. This is Foxy featuring Carrie Cambridge with Drownin'. 

?? I'm standing here in the river. Boon ?? Hizb.
?? It reminds me of the net when you help me find my way to go.

?? 'cause you fully wanted ?? one more day crave. 
?? You flow ?? My to swim before row Okay. 
?? Your smile is like the bright days shimmering on your face. ?? Any glow but you get for, Granny people try to stop you from flowing. Not know ?? 'cause you saw rushing through my face ?? on Mt on the grave.
You pushing me to ?? my love for you is my moments. I drew ?? ??
Oh. ?? ?? Whenyou put a smile on my face ?? Ohab ?? But you flowing down the wall and I'm trying to follow you, then. Mm ??
?? him day gray ?? ?? mean swim for ?? ??
?? Okay ??
?? ?? craze ?? ?? Lace ?? my veins. I'm dry ?? ?? Thank you.

[applause] ?? [applause] [applause] 

?? [Luke] Support for Pop of Culture comes from Stallings Wealth Management and from you. You may have heard about large gifts to NPR. Those donations are important, but they don't bring back the funding to IPR. Your support pays for the programs you rely on, especially local programs like this one, and the people like me who create them. Pop of Culture exists for you and because of you. Give today at indianapublicradio.org.

{Jen] And that's our show. Our Digital Content God is August Wilde. And our regular human producer is Luke Jones, who'd like to use this holiday week as a reminder to be kind to service industry workers. Here, here. We had production assistant from Andrew Montavon. 

[Luke] Our show was hosted this week by me, Luke Jones. 

[Jen] And me, Jen Blackmer. Pop of Culture is a production from IPR on the campus of Ball State University.

This is Pop of Culture. I'm Jen Blackmer. 

[Luke] And I'm Luke Jones. We're doing some leisurely laps through our archives today. 

[Jen] Oh, the swimming metaphors. 

[Luke] Yeah, my dad wishes I was a swimmer. [laughter] My version of a full body workout is brunch, no. 

[laughter] [Jen]Sorry.