00;00;00;13 - 00;00;24;24 Kelsey Timmerman Timmerman: Who can use what bathroom? Caitlin Jenner. Pronouns. Is J.K. Rowling transphobic? Can a trans woman compete in a sport against other women? You may have an opinion about each of these topics. You may have argued with someone about them. Today's episode isn't about arguing. It's about listening to lived experiences of trans and non-binary individuals. 00;00;24;25 - 00;00;45;08 J.R. Jamison Jamison: So we want to do what the Facing Project does best: lift up stories of those who are often unheard and shine a light on ordinary lives. We'll hear a trans man's journey with hormone therapy; a story from a non-binary person who found acceptance at home; and another from a pastor who struggled with her faith and identity before finding peace. 00;00;45;11 - 00;00;46;08 J.R. Jamison I’m J.R. Jamison. 00;00;46;09 - 00;01;09;09 Kelsey Timmerman Timmerman: And I’m Kelsey Timmerman. Today on the Facing Project, we’ll explore stories beyond the binary. And later in the episode, we'll be joined by a transgender book from the Human Library, our friend Charlize Jamieson. [Music] 00;01;09;11 - 00;01;35;13 Patrick Oneal “Superman.” Shea Hollis Beal’s story as told to Cory Ross, performed by Patrick Anthony Oneal. This experience has really just set me free. Most of my life, I kept thinking I'm not who I'm supposed to be, and that took a toll. For a while, I was going by male pronouns at home, but not at work, and it was exhausting. I had a couple transgender friends. 00;01;35;17 - 00;01;56;17 Patrick Oneal One started testosterone, or T, around the same time when I was going through all of this, and just seeing him go from miserable to happy and feeling comfortable in his own skin made me feel like I would be able to do the same thing. I also started volunteering with an LGBT group in Springfield called “Say It.” The kids there were struggling. 00;01;56;23 - 00;02;23;03 Patrick Oneal Most of their parents didn't know they were trans, or their parents knew and would dead name them and just treat them awful about their wishes. Helping them also made me realize that I was trans and needed to walk the talk and be a role model for them. I started hormone treatment at the Ohio State University Transgender Clinic, and from the first treatment, I felt amazing, like I could take on anything. 00;02;23;05 - 00;02;59;01 Patrick Oneal Kind of like Superman. When I was a woman, I felt like just an empty shell. It was the person I had to be. Being on T has flipped my mind, and I feel like for the first time that I'm in control. But there was this awkward in-between. Testosterone gave me the muscle mass and the facial changes I wanted, but I was still getting called “she” by people who didn't know me because I lacked facial hair, and the sound of my voice hadn't changed right away, so I just had to own it. 00;02;59;05 - 00;03;27;12 Patrick Oneal I learned how to say, “This is who I am,” and I do think that in-between period made me stronger. But overall, I'm surprised by how much support I've had here in rural Ohio. I posted a before-and-after T photo on Facebook, and I got so many likes and comments. But what surprised me the most was the overwhelming positive response I got from the older people in the community. 00;03;27;18 - 00;03;54;06 Patrick Oneal That, coupled with the level of acceptance I got when I came back to my job, really hit it home for me. I work with these two girls in customer service, and if someone says the wrong name, the wrong pronoun, they're at their throat. They're like, “Hey, it's ‘he.’” And it's really nice. I was so terrified because going through this, I thought I was going to be alone. 00;03;54;06 - 00;04;15;18 Patrick Oneal And now that I'm out there doing it and experiencing it, I realized that everybody is supportive of you if you are supportive of you. I mean, I used to think Springfield was extremely closed minded, but if that were the case, then my grandmother wouldn't be my biggest fan. I haven't had anybody treat me terribly since I started T. 00;04;15;20 - 00;04;42;00 Patrick Oneal That feels pretty good. It makes me feel even more like Superman. I have a friend now who's been wrestling with his own issues, and if I hadn't gone through my transition, gotten the treatments, I wouldn't be able to help guide him through the process. He's going to start T next month, and he's so pumped now. One day soon we'll look into the mirror together and say, “Heck yeah, we look awesome.” 00;04;42;03 - 00;05;00;26 Patrick Oneal Since my transition, I've thought to myself, what am I going to do with my life? And I had to look around a lot to find something that fit the new me. I decided I wanted to blow glass, but I had no idea how to do it. Through a few references, I found a guy who gave me a shot. 00;05;00;27 - 00;05;44;12 Patrick Oneal Several months later, I'm blowing glass people are buying, that my own teacher is buying from me. I found what I want to do for the rest of my life, and it feels so good. When you're blowing glass, and you turn on that torch, it's really hot. It's scary at first, but once you get used to the heat and you get a little bit of experience, when that torch clicks on, you're in the zone. [Psychedelic surfy synth rock] 00;05;44;15 - 00;06;08;04 C.S. Hendershot Hendershot: “They Will Always Be My Child.” C.S. Hendershot’s story as told to Tanya Said, performed by C.S. Hendershot. I had C.S. on my mind for quite a while. In high school, my friend gave me some of his clothes to wear for a film we were shooting. I put them on, walked out, and everyone stared in awe. They could just tell that I felt more confident. 00;06;08;04 - 00;06;30;06 C.S. Hendershot I felt good. Before I knew, something was off. I didn't feel comfortable wearing women's clothing or presenting feminine. So many of my peers were telling me that, in order to be beautiful, I needed to be more feminine. I struggled for years to understand what I was feeling and why. I thought of college as a chance to start over. 00;06;30;06 - 00;07;00;20 C.S. Hendershot And Spectrum, a university LGBTQ student organization, provided that space for me to understand and explore gender identity. That first year, I wrote an auto-ethnography for an English course that was practically a paper where I came out to myself. I wrote about my experiences growing up, feeling like I needed to be more feminine, but never feeling comfortable when I did. I was beginning to understand that gender was complex and not as simple as a binary system. 00;07;00;20 - 00;07;33;27 C.S. Hendershot It was several years later when I fully came out. At a healthcare event where I was a speaker, I came out publicly as C.S., but I didn't explain to everyone that I was coming out. I just said, “Hello, my name is C.S.,” and people didn't question it. Up until that point, I hadn't come out to anyone in person. I was terrified on that stage. But after taking that first step, I decided to come out through social media because I just figured it would be the easiest way to reach the most amount of people. 00;07;34;00 - 00;08;01;01 C.S. Hendershot I've come to understand how exhausting it can be to come out and have to explain my gender to everyone. I just shouldn't have to. This past summer, I started to come out as nonbinary. It's been a slow process of coming out to every person in my life, and it truly never ends. My partner, Anna has been there every step of the way to help ease that stress of the process. I started coming out on my social media accounts. 00;08;01;07 - 00;08;25;26 C.S. Hendershot Facebook has a feature to change pronouns, and so as another step, I changed my pronouns to “they/them/their.” Then when I was ready, I changed my name. With the name change, I was also nervous I was being a burden making other people change their language. This upset me because I knew it wasn't a burden, that other people should respect my identity, but I couldn't help feeling this way. 00;08;25;28 - 00;08;52;18 C.S. Hendershot People constantly mis-gender me even when I have told them that I use they/them pronouns. Sometimes I understand; it takes time to change a habit of vocabulary. However, I'm trying to start correcting people when they use the wrong pronouns because they do need to actively work to change their habits. I think the luckiest part of my story is that my parents have always been supportive of me coming out. 00;08;52;21 - 00;09;10;12 C.S. Hendershot I was so nervous coming out to them, even though I knew they would be supportive of me. I think I was nervous because I knew this would be something completely new to them, and that it would take some time for them to understand. I was so scared they would say, “We love you, and you'll always be our daughter.” 00;09;10;18 - 00;09;31;17 C.S. Hendershot They proved me wrong though. They told me how beautiful of a person I was and how amazing it's been to see me grow and become comfortable with myself. I will always be their child. [Chillwave music] 00;09;31;20 - 00;10;02;03 Charlize Jamieson “Awake.” Pastor Avery Sledge's story as told to Kailey Mau, performed by Charlize Jamieson. How do we know who we are? It's that big mystery in life, an enigma. It took many years for me to sort this out. I'll start with this: I'm a transgender woman. I'm also a pastor for the United Church of Christ. Society says being transgender is not natural. 00;10;02;05 - 00;10;30;02 Charlize Jamieson It's not normal. It's not part of God's plan. But my gender difference is something that I became aware of at about age five. I did not have a name for it back then. I went through school and most of my adult life sort of living a dual existence: a life I had to present publicly, and the life I felt internally. 00;10;30;05 - 00;11;02;04 Charlize Jamieson I also felt conflicted by my conservative upbringing. I grew up thinking that God didn't make mistakes. So as I went through life, I did all the things I thought I was supposed to do. I went to college, married, joined the military, and had a family, two kids. But I wrestled with feeling different the entire time. I did a lot of wrestling and arguing with God. 00;11;02;07 - 00;11;36;13 Charlize Jamieson I often asked God why he did this to me. I was very raw in my prayers, and I went through this process several times. Then, while I was serving in the Air Force and struggling through my internal conflict, I had another piece of my life tugging at me. I was called to enter the ministry. It was almost like we - God, and I - were arguing about this summons. 00;11;36;15 - 00;12;08;10 Charlize Jamieson I initially offered up many reasons as to why I should not become a pastor. Among them, I said I was a transgender person, and the United Methodist Church had never ordained a transgender person. It was then God said, I'm not calling you just to be a pastor. I'm calling you to be a pastor for my people, which is a totally different call, not tied to any specific denomination. 00;12;08;13 - 00;12;36;18 Charlize Jamieson My first words after realizing that were, oh crap, my argument was gone. One of the things I learned from both my struggles is that we can come before God, angry and mad, and use profanity to ask the “why” questions. That's the meat: wrestling with faith. If you're so certain about your faith, then I don't think it is faith. 00;12;36;20 - 00;13;12;23 Charlize Jamieson There is no room for growth in sureness. Every time someone reads the Bible, they hear it differently, and it speaks to them differently. God is still speaking each time. My personal belief is that God can take all the questions we have and all the anger we've got. God's big enough for that. All our lives, many of us have been taught that we have to be polite to God, and that we need to revere a powerful God. 00;13;12;25 - 00;13;43;01 Charlize Jamieson But I believe we have to be open, honest, and sometimes raw. It's just like any other relationship. Conversation goes both ways, and somewhere in the midst of this, it's not like God gives us this lightning bolt answer to our struggles. It's this small, still voice. And that's what I experienced in my case. There are still days where I wrestle with God. 00;13;43;06 - 00;14;27;04 Charlize Jamieson There are still days where I wonder why I'm in the ministry. I still wonder whether I'm doing any good. But at the end of the day, I realized there is a reason I've been called to the ministry as a transgender person. My life matters. Over time, I found that each of us have many identities, and some of mine happened to be: spouse, child, sibling, parent, grandparent, retired colonel, clergy person, and finally a transgender person, which is in a long line of the many identities I have. 00;14;27;06 - 00;14;55;23 Charlize Jamieson Not the only identity I have, which is what we tend to focus on too much. We tend to use labels as a kind of shorthand. Labels allow us to objectify folks. We forget there are more dimensions to people than the one way we categorize them. It's easier to dehumanize and to use a label than to recognize our full humanity. 00;14;55;25 - 00;15;29;20 Charlize Jamieson When you get to know someone as a person, they aren't just an object or a label anymore. Then you realize maybe they're not the devil incarnate after all. This same notion applies to race, religious preference, immigration status, and any other number of circumstances. I'm old enough now for people to take me as I am or leave me. That being said, unless there's a reason to tell someone that I'm transgender, I don't tell them. 00;15;29;22 - 00;15;57;07 Charlize Jamieson It's been 13 years since my transition. Yet I am proud to have walked both sides of that railroad track. I had privileges of being a male, and now it's still a different kind of privilege being a woman. But you do get treated differently. My views are sometimes discounted now, for example, being viewed less competent at the hardware store. 00;15;57;10 - 00;16;31;07 Charlize Jamieson But that doesn't mean I haven't learned to embrace all sides of me. The physical, emotional, spiritual, and social; all of that sort of intertwines, if you really think about it. When it comes to accepting yourself, you do go through a period of denial. Then you struggle, and that can last for a while, but then you accept. It's then that you go through this period of realizing that everything comes together. 00;16;31;09 - 00;16;52;04 Charlize Jamieson You realize this is who I am, and so does everyone else. Ultimately, we must embrace the mystery we don't understand. [Chillwave music fades to lofi electric guitar] 00;16;52;06 - 00;17;12;23 J.R. Jamison Jamison: We want to welcome to the show Charlize Jamieson, our dear friend, and a transgender book in the Human Library, an international organization and movement that aims to address people's prejudices by helping them to talk to those they would not normally meet. The organization uses a library analogy of “lending people” rather than books. Charlize, thank you for joining us. 00;17;12;26 - 00;17;14;11 Charlize Jamieson Jamieson: Thank you for having me. 00;17;14;14 - 00;17;24;23 Kelsey Timmerman Timmerman: Charlize, the story you just read is not your story, but in some ways, it kind of is. How do you relate to Avery’s story? 00;17;24;25 - 00;17;55;12 Charlize Jamieson Jamieson: Oh, gosh. As I was reading through the story before, you know, we recorded, I thought, this is- I could have written this. It is, it is very similar in many ways, different in others. But in some sense, I get I get a feeling that this could be a lot of people's story that, that Avery went through and is going through. And transition for me is, is something that is- it’s ongoing. 00;17;55;14 - 00;18;07;28 Charlize Jamieson It- you don't- I don't see a finish line to a transition. It's just a new- every day is a new day. And that's, that's kind of how I approach it. 00;18;08;01 - 00;18;13;10 Kelsey Timmerman Timmerman: Did you have a similar, like, faith kind of relationship then too? 00;18;13;14 - 00;18;40;24 Charlize Jamieson Jamieson: Yes. I was raised in a Christian family, and we were good old Presbyterians, and my parents were also pretty conservative, very traditional. And this is, this is where I was seeing myself in her story. I felt like, you know, what I was taught, you grow up, and life path is a very narrow one, and you don't veer off that path. 00;18;40;26 - 00;19;07;06 Charlize Jamieson And I could see that in, in Avery’s story as well until- And I didn't veer at all- veer off of it for, for half a century. [Chuckles] Yeah. You know, and you know, the time is right for, you know, different time, different people. There's no right or wrong. But very much, very many similarities between the two of us. 00;19;07;08 - 00;19;22;27 Kelsey Timmerman Timmerman: And as J.R. mentioned, you do a lot of work with the Human Library, where people can check you out as a book. And what has that experience been like? And, and who are you talking to, and what are those conversations like? 00;19;22;29 - 00;19;57;12 Charlize Jamieson Jamieson: Well, Covid changed the dynamic of the Human Library tremendously. Prior to that, I had been involved in two local face to face human library sessions. One was over at Lafayette, Purdue University, and one was here in Muncie at Minnetrista. That's as I became a book in the Human Library. That's what I envisioned was going to happen. And then we had Covid, and that pretty much stopped all in-person events. 00;19;57;14 - 00;20;27;12 Charlize Jamieson And we learned all about the wonderful world of Zoom at that point. And now our Human Library events, most of them are with corporate companies who are contracting with the Human Library to do things like induction training, new employees induction training, or diversity training. And we're doing sessions with employees of corporations around the globe. The Human Library is headquartered in Copenhagen. 00;20;27;14 - 00;20;43;11 Charlize Jamieson But, you know, we, we do sessions here in the United States. We do sessions- I even did a session on, in North Macedonia via Zoom. And, you know, there was quite the language barrier there. But we're, we're reaching all corners of the globe. 00;20;43;13 - 00;20;46;14 Kelsey Timmerman Timmerman: I don't think I can place North Macedonia on a map. 00;20;46;19 - 00;20;51;24 Charlize Jamieson Jamieson: I can't either. [Laughter] I think, I think Macedonia Avenue right over here on the South Side. That's what. 00;20;52;02 - 00;20;54;14 J.R. Jamison Jamison: I think it's in the Balkans, maybe. 00;20;54;16 - 00;20;56;05 Kelsey Timmerman Timmerman: That sounds good. 00;20;56;05 - 00;20;57;05 J.R. Jamison Jamison: I could be completely really wrong on that. 00;20;57;06 - 00;21;00;06 Charlize Jamieson Jamieson: [Laughter] English is not their main language, that I can tell you. 00;21;00;06 - 00;21;01;10 Kelsey Timmerman Timmerman: We need to check out a geography book. 00;21;01;13 - 00;21;02;09 Charlize Jamieson Jamieson: Yes, yeah. 00;21;02;10 - 00;21;16;18 J.R. Jamison Jamison: Yeah. I imagine with the Human Library you also meet people from all walks of life who maybe have never met a trans person before. What has been some of the reactions that you've seen? 00;21;16;24 - 00;21;49;27 Charlize Jamieson Jamieson: Well, probably the most dynamic reaction happened in Lafayette at that face to face. One of the librarians- and in this vernacular, librarians bring the reader or the individual to my table to check out the book, me. And so the librarian brought this woman over. And, you know, normally you stand up and you shake hands or whatever, and you greet. Well, this woman leaned in on the table, and I hadn't even had a chance to stand up yet. 00;21;49;27 - 00;22;08;12 Charlize Jamieson I'm still seated. She leans in on the table, and she says very sternly, “I'm a conservative Christian. I just want you to know that right from the start.” And I stood up, and I extended my hand, and I said, “Well, I'm a liberal Christian. Let's talk.” 00;22;08;14 - 00;22;08;25 J.R. Jamison Jamison: Nice. 00;22;08;26 - 00;22;16;07 Charlize Jamieson Jamieson: And we sat down. Now, these sessions were supposed to be 20 minutes in duration, and we sat down. 00;22;16;07 - 00;22;41;19 Charlize Jamieson And the timekeeper, they have a timekeeper that comes around, “Okay, you got five minutes left,” you know, and I just shooed the timekeeper away. And the timekeeper came back, “It's time. It's over.” I said, “No, no, we need more time.” And this, this read went on for almost an hour. And when we got up, you know what? I didn't change her mind on some of the basic things, and she didn't change mine. 00;22;41;21 - 00;23;04;07 Charlize Jamieson But we found common ground in that hour, and we stood up and she gave me the biggest hug, and off she went. And that, you know, I've been now with the Human Library probably right at two years or more. And that remains, to this day, the most poignant moment I've ever had in the Human Library. 00;23;04;10 - 00;23;25;08 J.R. Jamison Jamison: Yeah, I love that. I mean, it proves that storytelling really can bring people together across differences. And you're a great storyteller. I remember when I first met you, you told me that you had decided to transition late in life because you realized that you only have one life to live. And I think you said something along the lines of, “I wasn't going to die as the person I was before.” 00;23;25;10 - 00;23;41;16 J.R. Jamison That story really touched me, and it stayed with me all these years later. What do you want to say to those people who feel like they're too old? Or maybe that they have something holding them back? What do you want to say to those folks who are on the edge of becoming their authentic selves? 00;23;41;17 - 00;24;12;01 Charlize Jamieson Jamieson: Yeah, it's, it's never too late to be yourself. You know, today we hear an awful lot about young people, four and five years old. And I think we could have a pretty good discussion, debate, whatever, on how young is too young to transition. But I can tell you from the other end of the spectrum, it's never too old. 00;24;12;07 - 00;24;40;12 Charlize Jamieson And I don't look back. And I guess I would share this with anyone else that's in my age bracket that is thinking about coming, you know, coming out. I don't look back at the 50 years that I spent as a man, posing as a man. I look- I get up every day, and I look at- I look forward. 00;24;40;18 - 00;25;14;13 Charlize Jamieson You know, how are we- How much time I have left, I don't know. How many days I have left, I don't know, but I'm going to live every moment I have authentically. And enough of this posturing as someone else, as an impostor, and I can't- I just can't tell you how freeing it is to leave that other person behind and be your authentic self to others. 00;25;14;13 - 00;25;48;05 Charlize Jamieson And I have to say, I've been so surprised, pleasantly so, at the reception that I've received anywhere I've gone, especially here in my hometown, you know, a pretty traditional conservative place. And people that I've known for 40 or 50 years have embraced me. They may not fully understand, but they accept me, and they embrace me. And I'm welcomed anywhere here in town or anywhere I go. 00;25;48;07 - 00;26;16;28 Charlize Jamieson And, you know, the Human Library is all about unjudging people. And I have to say that I did an awful lot of judging of the people of my town ahead of time. I was positive it was going to be a disaster. I was going to lose everything and everyone I held near and dear. And I'm here to tell you, I haven't lost one single person of significance in my life. 00;26;17;00 - 00;26;27;01 Kelsey Timmerman Timmerman: So how, how was that coming out to your, your family, your children? 00;26;27;04 - 00;27;04;04 Charlize Jamieson Jamieson: [Chuckles] I, I, I had no support structure whatsoever. And so I started with social media, transgender support groups on Facebook, for example, people I didn't know and probably would never, ever meet. But they were going through the same thing I was, and I, I counted that as some moral support because when I decided that if I- when I come out to the people closest to me, if they reject me and I don't have something, I'll have nothing in the way of support to fall back on. 00;27;04;07 - 00;27;38;12 Charlize Jamieson So as, as maybe unimportant as that might sound, it was everything to me to have something to soften the landing if it went bad. So my family were among the last to know, and I told my wife - I am still married. I told her and my kids about five years ago, and she's still with me. My kids are now 37, 34 and 22. 00;27;38;12 - 00;28;14;26 Charlize Jamieson And they were, you know, subtract five years from those ages when I told them. But they've all accepted, affirmed who I am, loved me before and now. And I'm blessed because I can tell you, you know, I can tell you that the majority of transgender stories don't, don't end that way. It's tragic. We've got kids coming out at 12 and 13 years old, and some of this is local, not, this- this isn't somewhere else. 00;28;14;26 - 00;28;20;10 Charlize Jamieson This is happening everywhere, including here. 00;28;20;13 - 00;28;50;10 Charlize Jamieson They're, they're booted out of their house. The church doesn't want them. They're bullied at school. Their friends make fun of them. And despite all of that, they still come out. They're going to be themselves. And they struggle. They struggle mightily. And so you have organizations in this town, like Muncie Outreach, that have been a lifesaver for these kids. 00;28;50;13 - 00;29;11;27 Charlize Jamieson And they're, they're performing such a great work here to, to help these young people that are struggling. But that's bravery to me. I've had people come up to me and say, “You know, Charlize, you're really brave to do what you've done.” I don't think so. I don't view it that way. I mean, I was almost 60 years old when I came out. 00;29;12;00 - 00;29;18;25 Charlize Jamieson Bravery are those 12 and 13 year olds today that, in spite of everything, they come out. 00;29;18;27 - 00;29;36;06 J.R. Jamison Jamison: Charlize, a part of the journey of becoming your authentic self is also changing your documentation. You recently got a new driver's license. I also think a social security card. Talk a little bit about that. What was it like to get your new identification? 00;29;36;13 - 00;29;59;00 Charlize Jamieson Jamieson: Well, you know, and I waited and waited for a court date. I've got my legal name change and gender change. And, you know, it seemed like the, the wait was eternal. And then I walked into the courtroom, and I don't think, I don't think I'd even made the seat warm, [laughs] and the judge said, “Granted.” And out I went with a new name and a new gender. 00;29;59;00 - 00;30;23;01 Charlize Jamieson And, and from there it was turn in all of my documentation to Social Security. Get a new card, get a new birth cert- I went down, I was born in Indianapolis, and I went down to Indianapolis, and not thinking with, with the Covid restrictions- All of this I'm talking about, by the way, has happened in the last 4 to 6 weeks, and I never dreamed that I'd come home with a new birth certificate. 00;30;23;01 - 00;30;43;26 Charlize Jamieson And I, I have to tell you, I walked out of the vital records department with two birth certificates in hand because I wanted a double in case I lost one, and just sat in my car and bawled. I mean, it was just, I was alone, and it was, it was just such a heady experience. I just couldn't believe it. 00;30;43;26 - 00;31;09;19 Charlize Jamieson And since then, driver's licenses, and I've got- I just, I got to head for my passport now, but, you know, I'm working on insurance and Medicare and all that stuff. There's so many, so many places I need to notify. But those are the biggies, and those are the ones you want to hit first because that- they trigger a lot of other things. 00;31;09;21 - 00;31;23;11 Charlize Jamieson But what an experience it continues to be. My transition is not over. You know, I've got the rest of today, and then tomorrow we start over again on something else and something new. 00;31;23;13 - 00;31;28;24 J.R. Jamison Jamison: Charlize Jamieson, thank you so much for sharing your story and for joining us today. 00;31;29;00 - 00;31;37;17 Charlize Jamieson Jamieson: Thank you very much. It was a pleasure to join you guys. You both are great and you're doing great work. Thank you. 00;31;37;19 - 00;32;09;28 J.R. Jamison Jamison: For those of you listening to this episode in real time, it's October, which is also coming out month. But far too often in the past, coming out has focused on the voices of the LGB and not the T, Q or beyond. Our hope is that more stories, like the ones heard today, will become an important voice in not only the LGBTQIA+ community, but in everyday conversations to help us all see the human condition and that we all are just people. [Theme music] 00;32;10;01 - 00;32;34;06 Kelsey Timmerman Timmerman: We want to thank Lauren Instenes, Dr. Renae Mayes, Laura Janney, Kim McKenzie, among others, for their work on organizing Facing Intolerance in Springfield, Ohio, and Facing LGBTQ Pride in Muncie, Indiana. Pastor Avery Sledge’s story was written in collaboration with Kailey Mau and was performed by Charlize Jamieson. C.S. Hendershot’s story was written in collaboration with Tonya Said and was performed by C.S. Hendershot. 00;32;34;11 - 00;32;39;19 Kelsey Timmerman Shea Hollis Beal’s story was written in collaboration with Cory Ross and was performed by Patrick Oneal. 00;32;39;23 - 00;33;07;00 J.R. Jamison Jamison: To listen to past episodes of this program, visit IndianaPublicRadio.org/TheFacingProject. From there, you can subscribe to the podcast where you'll get episodes of the Facing Project delivered to your device each month. Listeners can contribute stories or volunteer to share the stories of others with a Facing Project that may appear on the show. More information at FacingProject.com/InspireAction. To continue the conversation about this episode, find us on Facebook at The Facing Project. 00;33;07;01 - 00;33;28;16 Kelsey Timmerman Timmerman: The Facing Project is recorded at Indiana Public Radio at Ball State University in beautiful, wonderful Muncie, Indiana, and is produced by the amazing producer extraordinaire Sean Ashcraft. The show is distributed nationally through PRX. We are your host, Kelsey Timmerman and J.R. Jamison. And until next time, we wish you the courage to share your own story and the empathy to listen to others. [Theme music concludes]