Please note: Accuracy and availability of IPR transcripts may vary. 00;00;00;07 - 00;00;19;18 J.R. Jamison Jamison: Did you know that nearly 40% of us will be diagnosed with some type of cancer during our lifetime? That's shocking right? I was surprised as well. So this got me curious about life with and after cancer. Or in other words, the stories of those still deep in their fight and those who made it through to the other side. 00;00;19;21 - 00;00;35;01 J.R. Jamison I'm J.R. Jamison. Today on the Facing Project we’ll discuss life with cancer. 00;00;35;03 - 00;00;57;13 J.R. Jamison I remember the first time I heard the C word. I was eight and my grandfather was diagnosed with lung cancer. It was attributed to his years of working as a coal miner in the hills of southeast Kentucky. But in all honesty, we'll never know for sure. It could have been a variety of factors, be it environmental, hereditary, or a combination of the two. 00;00;57;16 - 00;01;20;06 J.R. Jamison He lived for seven months, and after he passed, I found myself obsessed with death and dying, and it sent me into a bit of a depression. But then a friend's mom got breast cancer, and she survived. And then my cousin and aunt and another cousin and a teacher. And then years later, a friend from high school, they all got some type of cancer. 00;01;20;12 - 00;01;45;01 J.R. Jamison And the list of people in my life affected by cancer, in one way or another goes on and on. But think of your own life. I can guarantee you that you have your own cancer story. Be it a loved one, a friend, or your own story of survival. According to the centers for Disease Control and Prevention, 1.7 million new cancer cases were reported in the US in the last year. 00;01;45;03 - 00;02;10;25 J.R. Jamison That's a for 430 new cases out of every 100,000 people. Or if you're really into stats, that's about 4% of the overall population. But what's more striking is that nearly half of the cases result in death, and the annual combined cost to treat cancer is $150 billion. And that's expected to rise as the average lifespan continues to increase. 00;02;10;27 - 00;02;40;23 J.R. Jamison And as I mentioned in the intro, ultimately 40% of people will receive some type of cancer diagnosis during their lifetime. But with those great statistics, there's a bright side. More than half of the diagnosed cases will go into remission and recovery. As of January 2019. There were an estimated 16.9 million cancer survivors in the United States, and the number of survivors is projected to increase to 22.2 million by 2030. 00;02;40;25 - 00;03;03;10 J.R. Jamison So this had me curious about life with and after cancer. Today, I'll share the story of an oncologist who treats more than a disease, and another from a grandma who continues to fight cancer long after her cure, and then one from a dad who refuses to give up. Later in the show, I'll be joined by one of the storytellers and the daughter who helped tell her story. 00;03;03;12 - 00;03;11;27 J.R. Jamison Due to the nature of dealing with a life altering disease, there is some strong language in the story. Joker listener discretion is advised. 00;03;12;00 - 00;03;45;26 Carl Frost Frost: Cancer Is My Specialty: Dr. Michael Williamson’s story as told to Dagny Zupin. Performed by Carl Frost. People assume my job as an oncologist is debilitating, aggressive, rough, just like the disease and it is. Cancer is draining and challenging. But the disease walks a fine line, the same line I walk. I teeter on the edge. The line we walk cancer and I is thin, barely dividing light and dark. 00;03;45;29 - 00;04;06;27 Carl Frost Cancer is rough, no doubt about that. When I take these cases, I'm not just caring for the disease. The disease does not come into my office, sit down in a chair and wait for my advice. The disease comes creeping in, taking the form of a young woman and her concerned father, or a shuffling old man in his fearful child. 00;04;06;29 - 00;04;32;13 Carl Frost I care for the patients and their families. It's what drew me to this profession. Treating something like this, you build relationships with people with cancer. I can't send them off with an antibiotic. And no, they will heal. This is a journey and I am their guide. I love these relationships. I find joy and meaningfulness in my days as I learn about my patients. 00;04;32;20 - 00;05;00;29 Carl Frost I know more than their latest white blood cell count and more than their scheduled course of treatment. I really know them. The person behind the disease. I know their life before cancer, and I know their dreams for their coveted after cancer. I know all these things. But every night I shut the door to my office, locking these things I know inside the hospital they will not journey with me back to my home. 00;05;01;02 - 00;05;25;24 Carl Frost When I sit at the dinner table with my wife and two children, these patients do not sit beside us. This is what I do for myself. While I build these relationships. I keep a distance, a distance to save myself. Without this separation, who knows? I wouldn't doubt I'd be in a psychiatric ward of the hospital. It's hard sometimes to look at my patients. 00;05;25;24 - 00;05;40;11 Carl Frost And remember I didn't do this to them. I didn't give them cancer. I try everything, but always. Always. I wonder, could I have done more? 00;05;40;14 - 00;06;06;26 Carl Frost As I learn about these patients and get to know them, I give them little pieces of myself. But I'm always careful, always keeping that distance. Because what happens if I give too much? What happens if just one night I forget to lock that office door? And then these things follow me home, into my sleep and back into my mind. 00;06;06;28 - 00;06;34;22 Carl Frost Then I have nothing to give to the next patient. If I allow a patient to cross that gap, then my separation, my perfect system, is wrecked. The rest of the patients afterwards suffer. To help them, I need my own spirit healthy. This distance gives me clarity. Because of this distance, I can see another side of cancer. The side that is transformative and incredible. 00;06;34;25 - 00;07;01;24 Carl Frost Cancer is a spiritual thing. It allows a person to grapple with issues of the heart and spirit issues they couldn't face before. Cancer is an opportunity, really. It may sound morbid to you, but I see it every day. This disease changes people. It takes them to a place of intersection. Whatever was going on before is belittled, and the opportunity for reconciliation is suddenly laid bare to the patient. 00;07;01;25 - 00;07;29;16 Carl Frost This reevaluation of the quality of time is something I wish for all people. Whoever preached turning lemons to lemonade was a wise person. That's the way I see my job. I take this monster and I try to put a positive spin on it. I feel a special calling to help these patients and their families. I accentuate the families and interests of my patients, not their diagnosis. 00;07;29;18 - 00;07;54;02 Carl Frost When I think cancer, one of the first words I think is spiritual. For some people who accept the Wake-Up call, cancer is a calling to release and let go from this earth. I'm courage them to heal from within, to use their will of spirit. I see these cancer societies and groups talking about the war on cancer, and I'm not a fan. 00;07;54;04 - 00;08;20;09 Carl Frost I'm all for raising money and finding a cure. How could I not be? But I'm not sure about calling it a war. It's something that happens to people. An experience. Not just a disease. People can fight it, but it's not a war. Oncologists see cancer every single day. It's strange, actually, to see something so frequently and not experience it for yourself. 00;08;20;11 - 00;08;43;27 Carl Frost Cancer happens around me all day, but it never happens to me personally. It's as if I'm behind a glass wall at work. I'm safe and sound behind my wall, but I can still hear everything. Still see everything the disease leaves in its wake. I'm on the outside looking in. I walk the thin line every day between light and dark. 00;08;44;00 - 00;09;06;17 Carl Frost I see the dark side from behind my glass wall. Aggressive and rough. And I wanted to stay there from behind the safety of my glass wall. I make my lemonade in the light. 00;09;06;19 - 00;09;34;09 Amy Leffingwell Leffingwell: The Consequences of Cancer: Connie Robertson’s story as told to Aimee Robertson-West. Performed by Amy Leffingwell. I don't remember very much about that night. I was lifted into the darkness from the roof of Saint Vincent's Regional Anderson. I felt myself moving toward the light. I pictured my husband Mike's silver bearded face. My children and their children Brad, Amy, Ryan, Corey, Sarah and Cass. 00;09;34;13 - 00;09;51;01 Amy Leffingwell I remember all their names and still here, I told myself as long as I can remember them, I'm not going anywhere. But I asked God to please not make me list off all of my grandchildren in order to stay on Earth. There are too many of them, and I wouldn't be able to do that even on a good day. 00;09;51;08 - 00;10;14;03 Amy Leffingwell I knew it was a race against time, and I was terrified that the blades of the lifeline helicopter were winding my clock down, my destination unknown. But as long as I'm terrified and have that feeling, I reminded myself that I'm still here. We landed at Saint Vincent Heart Center and I was greeted by Doctor Waltz, the most handsome in one of the youngest doctors I've ever seen. 00;10;14;05 - 00;10;38;07 Amy Leffingwell They don't have physicians like that here in Indiana. Maybe on TV, but not Indiana. Maybe I was on my way out after all. Then he said he was my cardiac surgeon, and I told myself, maybe I'm going to make it after all. And I did, but barely. Doctor Waltz shared with my family that the odds of surviving a ruptured aneurysm event was 10%. 00;10;38;08 - 00;10;59;11 Amy Leffingwell He couldn't believe it. No one could, but I could. My kids tell me to stay home when I don't feel well and take a load off. But what they don't know is that if I took a load off every time I didn't feel well. I'd never go anywhere. I'd never do anything. Besides, you either keep going or you just stop when you have as many doctors and diagnoses as I do. 00;10;59;13 - 00;11;19;20 Amy Leffingwell I had just recovered from an invasive back surgery when I had the aneurysm, and had been walking around for a long time with 80% of my nerves pinched. So many aches and pains. It's hard to know where one source of pain ends and another begins. I'm being honest. I try not to complain and just keep going. But this next time it was different. 00;11;19;21 - 00;11;44;04 Amy Leffingwell I had an unbearable pain in my jaw that I've never had before, and I knew something was very wrong. We went straight to the E.R. and on September 30th of 2014, the day after my 66th birthday, I survived my second aneurysm. This wasn't just your average, everyday, ordinary aneurysm. This was a dissecting, ascending aortic aneurysm that had begun to burst. 00;11;44;08 - 00;12;10;01 Amy Leffingwell My aorta had shredded pieces. It was a big deal. I mean, do you know how many people survived? One in your ism? How about two aneurysms, along with a hysterectomy and living with lupus, osteoarthritis and chemo induced type two diabetes. Liver and cascading heart failure. Oh, and tissue damage. I don't know, but our late 18 year old family cat, Betty, must have shared her nine lives with me. 00;12;10;03 - 00;12;34;01 Amy Leffingwell The question is, how many lives do I have left? How many has cancer taken away from me? Cancer came knocking on my door and pushed its way. And 14 years ago, cancer didn't care that he. Yes, my cancer was a. He piled it on. He didn't care that I was caring for my own mom, who had just been diagnosed with Alzheimer's and who had just entered a nursing home. 00;12;34;02 - 00;13;02;16 Amy Leffingwell He didn't care about any of my kids and my grandkids needs or milestones. Cancer didn't care about my grueling 5 a.m. work schedule as a line cook at Ball States Dining Hall. He didn't care that he took the lives of some of my coworkers. He didn't care that he disfigured me by taking most of my left breast, my lymph nodes, and he certainly didn't care that it led to repeated cases of cellulitis and a permanently swollen left arm, and likely my aneurysms. 00;13;02;18 - 00;13;26;13 Amy Leffingwell Like so many before me and countless others after, he gleefully took the hair from my head and burned my body with radiation, he forced me to take steroids that altered my appearance just to endure what he was dishing out. And when my cancer center doctors, nurses, family, friends, and I finally kicked him out, he had me looking over my shoulder and living in fear of his return. 00;13;26;15 - 00;13;50;15 Amy Leffingwell Worse, he didn't care that he made me feel guilty for surviving his devastation when others haven't. Cancer took so many things away, but the fight for my life brought out the very best in me. Gave me strength I never knew I had. And united my family and friends forever. And what cancer underestimated was the flourishing apple tree I planted many years ago for my children and grandchildren. 00;13;50;20 - 00;14;14;11 Amy Leffingwell I gave my apples freely to them because chemo may have my arteries weak, but not my soul. Every single day, even the bad ones, is a gift. I'm still here and I'm grateful. 00;14;14;13 - 00;14;41;25 Larry Beck Beck: I Decided to Stop Being Mad: Brian Fitzgerald’s story as told to Eddie Metzger. Performed by Larry Beck. For my annual physical, I went to a doctor who was from Philly. He had these big meaty sausage fingers and was the classic Sicilian guy. During the physical, he said, Fitz, you've got to relax. I said, you're taking my virginity. And he goes, you're going to break my finger. 00;14;41;28 - 00;15;00;18 Larry Beck After we started over, he said, it looked like I had an internal hemorrhoid. I thought, hell, I can deal with that. So I went to Delaware to see a proctologist. Just to be safe. She wanted to do a colonoscopy, but a few days later, I get a call from her telling me the insurance isn't going to cover it. 00;15;00;19 - 00;15;23;19 Larry Beck I was too young, mother fucker. Oh, well, it would have cost me $4,800 out of pocket for the procedure anyhow. And and I wasn't going to pay that to get a hemorrhoid checked out. So I decided to take it easy knowing I had to get better. I mean, it was only a hemorrhoid. At the same time, my daughters had been driving my ex-wife crazy. 00;15;23;19 - 00;15;45;08 Larry Beck So I took a year off and came to Muncie to help out. But I also relaxed. I painted. I even took a motorcycle trip across the country. I told my daughters I was going to Chicago for two days with my buddy, and we came back five weeks later. I'd call him up every night and they'd ask me where I was and Sonata Mexico. 00;15;45;09 - 00;16;12;05 Larry Beck I'd say they couldn't believe I drove my bike all the way down there, but I did. It was fun and exciting. Soon after I started to feel tons of pain and discomfort. I went to Indy to meet Doctor Atit Shaw and he urged me to receive a colonoscopy. So I bit the bullet and I did. Once I woke up from the anesthesia, I turned to the nurse and asked her what the news was. 00;16;12;10 - 00;16;36;16 Larry Beck Oh, it's bad, she said. How bad could it really be, though? I'm fine. Right? We stopped counting at 67 polyps, she said. The next day, out of nowhere. The doctor tells me he's going to rip out my colon. I'm starting radiation and they're going to shrink the tumor depending on the size of the tumor. They were probably going to take my rectum to. 00;16;36;20 - 00;16;59;06 Larry Beck It was like rapid fire. All of this happened fast. So over the next 36 days, I go through chemo and radiation. And about a month after I stopped the chemo, I had the operation. They took out all of the goods. Recently, I've told the doctor that throughout the week I'll have maybe 1 or 2 days that are complete hell. 00;16;59;13 - 00;17;21;12 Larry Beck When that happens, I tell my daughters that I'm fine, but then I go out to the garage and scream. Because of the pain, I lose sleep. I wake up in cold sweats, drenched like you just walked out of the white River. I wouldn't wish this upon anyone to ease the pain. All the doctors start telling me to smoke pot. 00;17;21;19 - 00;17;42;00 Larry Beck My friends did too. I said, no, of course not. I don't need pot to feel better. But the other day I broke down and tried it for the first time. Snuck down into the basement when I thought the girls weren't home. Then I heard it, my youngest coming down the stairs. I panicked and hid the pot as frantically as possible. 00;17;42;02 - 00;18;05;01 Larry Beck Why does it smell like weed in here? She asked. Weed? Pot? I acted as dumb as a stump. I don't know what you're talking about. What is pot even smell like? Turns out the stuff has helped. I've slept great the past few days and I got my appetite back. Despite the pain, I haven't talked about my experience much. 00;18;05;02 - 00;18;29;21 Larry Beck I'm a pretty quiet guy. Keep to myself. I tell my daughters bare bones minimum. But I spent about a week being mad about the diagnosis. I was pissed at the world. How could this happen to me? I didn't miss a day of Catholic school. I was mad at my family and their genes. I was just pissed. Then I decided to stop being mad. 00;18;29;25 - 00;18;50;18 Larry Beck I told myself, you can either get busy trying to help your body cure itself, or you can get busy doing nothing and die. Well, I'm not in any position to die yet. When I was a kid, a running joke was that I would never make it to 21. All my buddies teased me about this. Well, I made it to 21. 00;18;50;18 - 00;19;01;24 Larry Beck And I'm going to make it past this too. 00;19;01;26 - 00;19;11;25 J.R. Jamison Jamison: I want to welcome to the show Connie Robertson and Aimee Robertson-West. Connie’s story was featured in today's episode and her daughter Aimee helped tell it. Connie and Aimee, thank you for joining me. 00;19;11;26 - 00;19;13;20 Connie Robertson Robertson and Robertson-West: You're welcome. It's good to be here. Thank you. 00;19;13;20 - 00;19;22;28 J.R. Jamison Jamison: And I also want to share with our listeners that Connie and her husband, Mike, used to be my next door neighbors. So in many ways, this feels like a reunion. And Corey and I. 00;19;22;28 - 00;19;23;25 Connie Robertson Robertson: We’ve got all the dirt on you. 00;19;23;27 - 00;19;43;05 J.R. Jamison Jamison: Seeing you and I know please don't share that know on air with the listeners. We were able to just catch up a little bit. Share old stories. But yeah, we were we were once neighbors. So, Connie, I want to start with you. You told your story in Facing Cancer back in 2017. How are you doing today? 00;19;43;07 - 00;20;11;17 Connie Robertson Robertson: I've had stage for lung cancer for four years. I I'm doing great. I'm like on our my fourth different chemo treatment. And this chemo is not quite as bad as my other game as I've had some that make my fingernails fall out. And I mean, it's been awful, but things are looking up a little bit. I mean, I still have stage four cancer, but nothing's really terrible right now. 00;20;11;18 - 00;20;20;06 Connie Robertson And I'm happy because I'm with my family still and not sick all the time. 00;20;20;09 - 00;20;24;13 J.R. Jamison Jamison: And you were first diagnosed in 2002. Is that correct? 00;20;24;14 - 00;20;26;13 Connie Robertson Robertson: I had breast cancer in 2002. 00;20;26;14 - 00;20;30;03 J.R. Jamison Jamison: Okay. And then you had a series of other health ailments. 00;20;30;05 - 00;21;02;15 Connie Robertson Robertson: I had chemo for six months and radiation got up. No more lung cancer or breast cancer. But then I had a an aneurysm that was repaired. And then after that, I had another aneurysm that had me going to the hospital in a helicopter after my granddaughter's volleyball tournament. And she always blamed herself because it was so exciting. And I did a lot of screaming and yelling and was on the way home that 00;21;02;16 - 00;21;06;02 Aimee Robertson-West Robertson-West: She is the loudest parent/grandparent at every single game. 00;21;06;04 - 00;21;12;22 Connie Robertson Robertson: I was like, off my seat. And every time Sydney went into it was a really good. She was in junior high then. 00;21;12;22 - 00;21;25;15 J.R. Jamison Jamison: So yeah. What I love about your story is even though that was a tragic moment and you were airlifted. You talk about seeing the doctor and that he was a really good looking guy. 00;21;25;17 - 00;21;28;00 Connie Robertson Robertson: Cute doctor. He was in a commercial. 00;21;28;07 - 00;21;30;06 J.R. Jamison Jamison: And you thought, I must have died. 00;21;30;07 - 00;21;35;17 J.R. Jamison We don't have doctors like this in Indiana. How do you keep your sense of humor through it? 00;21;35;23 - 00;21;54;21 Connie Robertson Robertson: It's really easy when you're in a helicopter and you're scared to death and you're in pain. And all of a sudden, the helicopter door opens in. The wind is blowing through this handsome guy's face and hair, and I'm going, oh my God, this is my doctor. So anyway, I felt I was in God's hands. 00;21;54;26 - 00;21;57;14 Aimee Robertson-West Robertson-West: So to speak. 00;21;57;17 - 00;22;08;24 Connie Robertson Robertson: Anyway, they operated on me. I guess I came pretty close to not making it, but I was determined to get out of that hospital quick. And by golly, I did. 00;22;08;26 - 00;22;11;19 J.R. Jamison Jamison: And you're still here with us and you still have the good sense of humor. 00;22;11;20 - 00;22;14;07 Connie Robertson Robertson: I'm determined. I am determined. 00;22;14;14 - 00;22;24;29 J.R. Jamison Jamison: Yeah. So Amy you've written on several facing projects prior to this one. But this time it was personal. What was it like to carry your mom's story? 00;22;25;02 - 00;22;52;14 Aimee Robertson-West Robertson-West: Oh, it was so important for me to tell this story. Not just for our family, but for other people to give them hope. She has survived so many things against the odds. And then I should also say, during the last four years, she also survived having sepsis. And, you know, she wasn't supposed to survive that, but she did. 00;22;52;20 - 00;22;53;15 Connie Robertson Robertson: Thank you. 00;22;53;16 - 00;23;08;20 Aimee Robertson-West Robertson-West: Well, no, I mean, you were very sick. So she managed to survive the pandemic and not get Covid, and she managed to survive having sepsis and pull through. And she was a force of nature. 00;23;08;26 - 00;23;21;21 J.R. Jamison Jamison: When you met with your mom and you went through the interview process to capture the story and collaborate with her. How was that different from other projects you'd written on in the past? 00;23;21;23 - 00;23;27;15 Aimee Robertson-West Robertson-West: I often my mom has a lot of words. 00;23;27;17 - 00;24;07;27 Aimee Robertson-West Even before this interview, I said, well, try to keep it short. Try not to use too many words. And when I talked to her about, you know, when I was gathering this story, I did exactly the opposite. I just allowed her to talk, and I wrote copious notes. And I think that's what made the story so meaningful, because, as you know, the facing project harnesses the first person perspective, and it forces someone to empathize with their storyteller. 00;24;07;29 - 00;24;19;25 Aimee Robertson-West And it really I had to step outside myself because I was experiencing it alongside her. But it wasn't me. This wasn't my story. It was hers. Yeah. 00;24;19;26 - 00;24;39;11 Connie Robertson Robertson: Well, she worked at little red door at the time, and she was so compassionate with the people that came in there. People don't know. She would come to my house in tears because she'd get so close to them. Then she'd find out, you know, they were dying or it's just it would just affect her so much. So. 00;24;39;14 - 00;25;02;11 J.R. Jamison Jamison: So I do want to talk about little Red door. So for listeners who don't know what that is, it was an organization that helped reduce the physical, emotional, financial burdens of cancer. And you were in that role when you helped tell your mom's story. How did that role at your role at little Red door? How did that prepare you for something so close to home? 00;25;02;14 - 00;25;32;01 Aimee Robertson-West Robertson-West: Well, I've said this often, and I'll say it again. It made me realize that it wasn't a race or a sprint, but a marathon. A cancer diagnosis is a marathon. And also, you know, I just learned so much strength from watching families go through this. And, you know, they allowed me to help them during that time. And I really didn't feel very helpful. 00;25;32;02 - 00;26;05;20 Aimee Robertson-West There's nothing you can do. I mean, to stop, you know, advanced cancer. I can't do anything about that. But just be there and help navigate. And what one of the things that I found so surprising through this experience, and then really like my professional hat wearing that hat, is helping the younger generations play a role and bringing them to the table and allowing them to help lead. 00;26;05;20 - 00;26;22;09 Aimee Robertson-West And not just the family members, but, you know, students that would volunteer with the organization interns and really giving giving them a chance to help lead. I think that for me, that helped me feel good about the work that I was doing. 00;26;22;11 - 00;26;28;08 J.R. Jamison Jamison: Connie, what advice do you have for someone who is facing cancer? 00;26;28;11 - 00;26;53;25 Connie Robertson Robertson: Well, my granddaughter just got married and her who is now her mother in law. She's younger than me because I'm old. But, at the wedding she was out there. She had her first chemo a couple days before that, and she had already lost her hair. It was that bad chemo. She got out there and didn't let anything stop her. 00;26;53;26 - 00;27;19;03 Connie Robertson She went out there and they danced to Greece because apparently they did that dance at their wedding, so they knew all of the moves. Oh that's great. And their kids were so, you know, just totally into them. She did not. She was tired. She was exhausted afterwards. But that's what I say. Don't give up. Just keep your keep being funny and laugh. 00;27;19;04 - 00;27;31;17 J.R. Jamison Jamison: And keep dancing. Right. Love that analogy. That's right. Connie Robertson and Amy Robertson West, storyteller and writer and mom and daughter featured in Facing Cancer. Thank you for joining me and telling your stories. 00;27;31;22 - 00;27;33;25 Connie Robertson Robertson: Thank you for having us. 00;27;33;28 - 00;27;51;01 J.R. Jamison Jamison: If you are a loved one or facing cancer and need support, resources, research and a network can be found online through the American Cancer Society at Cancer. 00;27;51;03 - 00;28;16;17 J.R. Jamison Stories from today's episode came from facing cancer in east central Indiana. We want to thank Doctor Adam Jay Cuban, his students in the Eagle Heart Scholars Program, and Aimee Robertson-West for organizing this facing project. Michael Williamson's story was written in collaboration with Dagny Zupin. It was performed by Carl Frost. Connie Robertson's story was written in collaboration with Aimee Robertson-West and was performed by Amy Leffingwell. 00;28;16;20 - 00;28;39;18 J.R. Jamison Brian Fitzgerald’s story was written in collaboration with Eddie Metzger and was performed by Larry Beck. To listen to past episodes of this program, visit Indiana Public August. From there, you can subscribe to the podcast where you'll get the facing project delivered to your device each month. Or just ask your smart speaker to play the facing project on NPR. 00;28;39;20 - 00;29;07;05 J.R. Jamison Listeners can contribute stories or volunteer to share the stories of others that may appear on the show. More information at Facing Project. To continue the conversation about this episode. Find us on Facebook, Instagram and Twitter at The Facing Project. The Facing project is recorded at Indiana Public Radio at Ball State University and Beautiful and Wonderful, Muncie, Indiana, and it's produced by the amazing producer and sound engineer extraordinaire, Sean Ashcraft. 00;29;07;07 - 00;29;19;14 J.R. Jamison The show is distributed nationally through. We are your host, Kelsey Timmerman and J.R. Jamison. And until next time, we wish you the courage to share your own story and the empathy to listen to others.