Sean Ashcraft (00:00): Support for Pop of Culture comes from Stallings Wealth Management, Daniel Stallings, financial advisor. Securities and advisory services offered through Cetera advisors, LLC. Member of FINRA/SIPC, a broker/dealer and registered investment advisor. Cetera is under separate ownership from any other named entity. Michelle Kinsey (00:16): This week on Pop of Culture, how a German illustrator illustrated her reckoning with the atrocities of World War II. Jen Blackmer (00:23): We'll also speak to a poet who turned Captain William Clark's journal entries into a book of poems. Michelle Kinsey (00:29): And trace Lewis and Clark's 8,000 mile journey himself. Jen Blackmer (00:35): And the Academy Awards are next weekend. We get ready with a local expert. Monica Sandler (00:39): What is this thing? This tiny little organization is giving out trophies, fine. Jen Blackmer (00:44): That's all coming up. Luke Jones (00:47): Support for Pop of Culture comes from Stallings Wealth Management, the Innovation Connector, and from you. With state and federal money eliminated, you are the difference in keeping local programming on the air at IPR. Become a member today at indianapublicradio.org. Michelle Kinsey (01:13): From IPR, this is Pop of Culture. I'm Michelle Kinsey. Jen Blackmer (01:17): And I'm Jen Blackmer. Our first guest today traveled over 8,000 miles to bring us his work. Michelle Kinsey (01:23): Well, kind of. He traced the actual journey that Meriwether Lewis and William Clark took to explore the new Western part of the United States at the start of the 18th century. He used that experience and the journals of Captain Clark to write a new book of poetry. Jen Blackmer (01:41): I'm happy to be here today with writer, Mark Hamilton, and Mark has a new book. His book is entitled 1803: The Wintering. Mark, we're so happy you can join us here on Pop of Culture. Mark Hamilton (01:57): Well, thank you. I'm happy to be here. Jen Blackmer (02:00): Amazing. So, tell us a little bit about your book. What is your elevator pitch? So, if somebody comes up and says, "What is your book about?" What do you tell them? Mark Hamilton (02:11): Yeah. 1803: The Wintering is a history-based volume of traditional verse. It's based upon the winter journals of Captain William Clark of the Lewis and Clark Expedition while the expedition was at Camp Dubois during the winter of 1803. (02:33): I wrote it as a people's history with the common man perspective in mind to try to connect these historical documents with the personal sensibility. And poetry was probably the only real choice that I had to express these motions that often accompany historical studies, but often are never communicated. Jen Blackmer (03:07): Absolutely. Absolutely. And poetry being, of course, a very personal art form. Well, the book, it's a reminder of the harsh conditions and the journey that Lewis and Clark took. Why interpret this for us? This is a story we hear in history class, so why did you feel that this particular journey was a good source for this kind of work? Mark Hamilton (03:41): To me, it offered a really fine opportunity to explore the transitional intersects that this experience for the expedition members represented. Early American values, Native American lands, the high contrast between the environment of then and now. (04:11): All this seemed to coalesce into a milieu that I could enter into and possibly communicate as a mirror to our current moment, as I explored our national identity that was basically represented by these post-revolutionary sons and daughters of the revolution. It was an enactment of our early thoughts on democracy and how a society should come together. I surprised myself many times in what I discovered, resulting in poems that were beyond my expectation. Jen Blackmer (05:09): So, it was almost as though you were journeying into the minds and the emotional states of the folks who were on this journey. I love that notion, Mark, of using poetry to communicate across time. Your book is divided into three parts with the last part being in a non-narrator, I'm assuming an anonymous narrator. A member of the Lewis and Clark crew. Why did you choose to do this? Mark Hamilton (05:43): I thought that after having worked through the journals themselves page by page, line by line, as I adapted Captain Clark's journal entries into poetry, that it allowed me a certain sense of reality within the relational exchange of the expedition members that could be expressed somewhat from the inside of those historical documents. (06:29): And so I allowed myself a little bit of a imaginative stance to become momentarily involved in the events of the moment within those historical documents. The voice that came from that is that a non-narrator. It was a working man, blue collar. Somewhat sensitive to events, somewhat interested in observing humanity as the story unfolded there at Camp Dubois. Jen Blackmer (07:14): Yeah. One of the things that struck me, Mark, as you were speaking about the work, was this intersection of the past moments of this journey and our present situation, politically, of course, in building a new nation, but then also environmentally. Because there's something really marvelous when you think about this journey through this pristine wilderness and how we don't have much of that anymore. Mark Hamilton (07:46): Right. It's always been part of my literary life to study texts as a comparative. And so my training in literature helped me, I think, to transcend the high contrast of 225 years ago and the present moment. What also helped me to do this was that I did trace their entire route on their approximate timetable, traveling as they did by paddle and pack-mule. Jen Blackmer (08:28): That's incredible. That's a really incredible, Mark. Mark Hamilton (08:32): It allowed me, I think, to perceive the journey from the water surface level, as it was mostly a voyage on our rivers. So, when I look at the journals and realize that there are vast amounts of wildlife that have disappeared, and realized that even myself could not probably sustain myself with food on this journey. (09:05): And realized that at that point in time, 1803, 1806, that these 45 or 48 men and women sustained themselves with hunting every day, eating sometimes eight pounds of meat per person per day. There's a huge lack of wildlife at this point. It's a difficult thing to come to terms with at times. Jen Blackmer (09:41): Absolutely. Yeah. The fact that they lived with the land while they were moving through it is really not a mindset that we find too often nowadays, right? Mark Hamilton (09:57): Yes. We've moved a long ways away from that. Jen Blackmer (10:01): We really have. How long did that take you, Mark, to do that journey? It's what, 8,000 miles; is that correct? Mark Hamilton (10:11): If you count the river miles on the Ohio from Pittsburgh, yes, about 8,000 miles from Pittsburgh to the Pacific and then back to St. Louis. And it took about three years. Jen Blackmer (10:26): Wow. So, this idea that you mentioned earlier about putting yourself into the mind and the heart and the thoughts of one of the anonymous men on the journey, you had that experience already. So, you were able to really, I think, transition that boundary a little more easily than anybody else, because you were able to bring that into your work. Mark Hamilton (10:55): I think that's somewhat true, yes. I also think it gave me a little bit of a permission to make some assumptions or perceive something within those documents that I felt was appropriate, that might not have been specified exactly. And so I was able to, again, exercise a little bit of latitude without feeling as if I was fictionalizing. Jen Blackmer (11:29): Of course. Of course. What do you hope readers take away from this book? Mark Hamilton (11:36): Well, I really hope they can turn to the journals themselves with a little bit more freedom of sensibility. A lot of times I think when we read history, we're setting ourselves apart from it. When actually history is all around us all the time, and it's coming towards us and it's drifting silently away. (12:07): If we can perceive these historical artifacts in text with a little bit more personal sensibility, I think we can empathize a lot further, and we can possibly perceive a bit more understanding from the events of the past. And that, of course, mirrors our present moment and we're better off for it. Jen Blackmer (12:41): Absolutely. Absolutely. That's beautiful, the notion of history coming towards us. It is very much a present experience of time. Mark, what a pleasure it's been to talk with you today. Could you tell us the selection you're going to close us out with? Mark Hamilton (12:58): I'd like to read a sonnet titled Hunters. (13:05): The magic, myth, and mystery are fine. A hunter stays in tune with what is near. The scented space that holds a quiet pine can turn the slightest breeze to tempt a bear. Our heightened senses embrace the soul. The mind is freed by nature's tenderness. As hunters, we enact, but do not control the strength of will that determines success. To snare a rabbit, or track and spot the buck in sheltered apple, oak, or stream they frequent is knowledge gained from them, not ego or luck. The worthiness is patience mixed with scent. Our palate tastes, our ears compare. We feel the birthing heart, when earth is made real. Jen Blackmer (14:21): Mark B. Hamilton taught writing, literature, and editing at Ball State University and Missouri Western State University for 20 years, among other experiences, such as tracing Lewis and Clark's journey. His book, 1803: The Wintering is out from Finishing Line Press. Michelle Kinsey (14:54): It's award season. The Academy Awards are next Sunday, March 8th. Now, sometimes hundreds of celebrities getting dressed up to pat themselves on the back in Hollywood can feel, I don't know, disconnected from the Midwest. So, we asked award season researcher and professor, Monica Sandler, to tell us why the Oscars matter? She also brought some Hoosier connections to keep an eye out for on the broadcast. She spoke with producer, Andrew Montavon. Andrew Montavon (15:21): Can you start by describing what Oscars night looks for those who may be unfamiliar or may have never watched the program? Monica Sandler (15:28): Yeah. So, Oscar night is Hollywood's biggest night. There are a lot of award shows between since the beginning of the year, they're a constant stream. But the Oscars are like the grand capital of movies, but they're also the culmination in the end of all of the different awards going on every year. (15:47): But they're put on by the Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences. It's this honorary organization, which is itself weird is a thing. So, it's the best of the best in Hollywood choosing the best of the best, at least in theory, though there are of course lots of disagreements about whether or not that is actually what happens. But in theory, that is what Oscar night is all about. Andrew Montavon (16:10): Some listeners may not be movie buffs or might not even plan to watch, but I hear that you might be, or you are looking into local Hoosier connections at the Film Awards this year. What have you found? Monica Sandler (16:23): Well, I think one of the really big things to keep in mind, and this also has a Ball State connection, is just how big the Heartland Film Festival is in terms of the films that played at Heartland Film Festival. You have a number of best picture contenders like Sentimental Value, Foreign Language Film Contenders. It was just an accident. (16:42): So, you've had a really big range of films that are premiered there. And also, especially if you look at the short subjects, the Indie Shorts Festival, where also our radiant cinema films from Ball State premiere, they heavily feed into the short subjects categories. (16:56): So, a lot of really big Oscar connections that emerge from that, and I think really cool connections to Ball State itself. Chase Infiniti, who's from Indianapolis, has been nominated in a lot of the awards, but she got snubbed in Best Actress. She's in One Battle After Another. She's nominated for The SAG Award, a number of other awards, but that is still a front-runner for Best Picture, so we'll give her her love here. Andrew Montavon (17:20): Yeah. Like you just said, incredible films. Sinners, like we just mentioned, One Battle After Another. In the category, who do you think will take home that coveted Best Picture Award this year? Monica Sandler (17:31): So, the competition really feels like a race between two films, which is One Battle After Another. It should be said in that context. Paul Thomas Anderson, he's been nominated for so many films, like Magnolia, There Will Be Blood, so many. He has never won an Oscar. That is crazy. Andrew Montavon (17:47): That is crazy. Monica Sandler (17:48): So, it's him, which is a very serious contender, a massively ode for the individual. And then the other big front-runner is Sinners, which received 16 nominations that shattered the record that existed for the most nominations. (18:02): So, you have these two really massive films. They're both released by Warner Brothers, interestingly, that are head-to-head and it really is anyone's game right now. Andrew Montavon (18:11): Yeah. I'm baffled at the fact that Paul Thomas Anderson doesn't have any award from the Oscars. It's so well deserved for all of these nominations, as well as Sinners, both incredible films. I'm excited to see how the Academy picks. Do you have any thoughts on the other films that are nominated for that category, like Hamnet or Marty Supreme? Monica Sandler (18:34): Yeah. Certainly the films like Hamnet and Marty Supreme are really big contenders in the acting categories. Marty Supreme with Timothée Chalamet, he is working overdrive in terms of going to things being heavily publicized for Best Actor. He, of course, was nominated last year and was a major contender, but lost. (18:54): And then Hamnet, additionally in the actress category, Jessie Buckley seems like she's a very, very heavy favorite for that category. I think this is about to be her breakout year just in general, because she has something called The Bride coming out soon that looks absolutely bonkers. So, she might win an Oscar and then just do something completely off the wall and I'm pumped for that. Andrew Montavon (19:18): I'm here for it. Monica Sandler (19:19): Yeah. Andrew Montavon (19:19): Were there any surprises or snubs in any category this year? Films that you think deserved a nomination? Monica Sandler (19:25): Well, certainly if we're talking about Hamnet, Paul Mescal, in a best supporting actor who was a heavy complement to Jesse Buckley in the film was snubbed in that particular category. That was definitely a surprise. Some of the debate about that has been awards campaigns are really heavily... They're campaigns. You go out, you go to events. (19:46): He's been filming The Beatles four-part movie. Essentially, he dropped out of campaigning and going to events and introducing himself to voters, and attending Q&As, and doing the press circuit and suddenly he doesn't get the nomination. Despite being really a driving force in a movie that's really about two people in it overall. (20:05): But I think that also showcases what I was saying about how the campaigns are working, is that this is an example of we can't know for sure why something gets snubbed. But it is one of those there is a correlation between him not necessarily be pushing the way that everybody else is. Andrew Montavon (20:19): Do you yourself have any Oscar night traditions like prediction lists? Do you have any watch parties or anything? Monica Sandler (20:26): Well, when I was younger, back at home, we had an Oscar pool, but I was forbidden, this was when I was a kid. I was forbidden from participating and it ended it, because I just kept winning and I apparently was a very smug winner. So, in that respect, not so much. (20:44): But currently, usually on Oscar night, it's just a big viewing experience with family and friends, have some type of party. I've done occasions in the past where I've had puns for different types of themes, food themed puns and things like that, some of them with varying degrees of terribleness. But yes, we do that. Andrew Montavon (21:07): You being banned from making predictions and competing with who's going to win has really proven that you clearly know a lot about awards season. You obviously wrote your book, The Oscar Industry: Creative Labor, Cultural Production, and the Awards System in Media Industry. How did that come about? What was the process of researching and writing that project? Monica Sandler (21:27): Yeah. So, if you told me in high school someday you're going to write a book, I know I would've had the Academy Awards, because as I just indicated, I've been weirdly into them for as long as I can remember. I also had pretty early on realized that it wasn't necessarily the films that I thought were the best that won. But that there was a lot of campaigning going on and that I could study the campaigns and predicting awards and do really, really well in terms of predicting. (21:51): It comes from a lifelong fascination, but this was really the crux of my doctoral research. So, when I did my PhD in the Los Angeles area, I researched at the Academy Archives and just developed the project from there looking at thousands of internal files from the Margaret Herrick Library that's in the general area that's tied to the Academy. So, it came from that and lifelong fascination. Andrew Montavon (22:16): You said you realized in high school that you were analyzing the awards more than just which you liked the best. What was that first moment that you realized you had this interest in film and interest in award season? Monica Sandler (22:28): So, I have a very distinct memory getting into a very heated argument with my grandmother in a grocery store, because I really loved Lord of the Rings. Seeing The Fellowship at the Ring was the best thing I'd ever seen in my entire life. So, I naturally wanted to see if it was going to win all the Oscars that it was nominated for, and all of the statistics were like, no, it's not going to. (22:50): So, I remember getting into a heated argument with my grandmother about why A Beautiful Mind was going to win Best Picture, which it did. And her being like, "You haven't seen that film. What are you even talking about right now?" And I'd be like, "No. But all of these things indicate." So, that definitely was a starting point, I think, for both of those things. Andrew Montavon (23:09): Yeah, totally. Considering all that we've discussed so far, if there's anyone listening who still needs a reason to watch, what do you say to them? Monica Sandler (23:18): The Oscars, they're a time honored tradition, but they're a giant spectacle. There are a lot of over the top things that happen on a regular basis. I think they're also a really fun communal viewing. Like I said, I watch with groups of people. So, it's a party environment and it's about making it a fun experience. Andrew Montavon (23:37): You mentioned how it's glamorous and a coveted time in Hollywood. Has it always been like that? Has it always been such a big night, such a crazy things can happen type of night? Monica Sandler (23:49): So, the early Oscars were a banquet format. The first event you would push people really hard to get to show up because they were just like, "What is this thing? This tiny little organization is giving out trophies? Fine." But pretty quickly, they became the hottest party of the year in town in the 30s, but they really evolved particularly in the war period. (24:11): They start doing a full radio broadcast and it's like a USO vibe, which is why you have the performances that you think about at award shows. And then that moves it into an auditorium and it becomes this big public spectacle from a private banquet to television, which started in 1953. And then Hollywood's biggest night. I did jazz hands. Andrew Montavon (24:32): The jazz hands have to be included. Monica Sandler (24:33): I have to reference that. Andrew Montavon (24:35): Monica Sandler, thank you for letting me nerd out about film with you. Thank you for joining us here on Pop of Culture. Monica Sandler (24:41): It's been a blast. Andrew Montavon (24:42): I'm Andrew Montavon. Jen Blackmer (24:49): Nora Krug is a German American author and illustrator. An exhibition now open at the David Ousley Museum of Art explores two of her works. Michelle Kinsey (24:58): I made my way down the street to DOMA to learn more. We are sitting at a large wooden table in one of the galleries at the David Ousley Museum of Art on the Ball State University campus. Sitting next to me is Robert LaFrance, and he is the museum director here. We are here at this table surrounded by books that Bob is going to tell us more about. Bob, tell us about this exhibit that we are now sitting in the middle of? Robert LaFrance (25:30): Great. I'm happy to. The show is called Nora Krug, Belonging, and it runs from February 19th until June 13th, 2026. What you're seeing here on the table are many of Nora Krug's publications. Now, Nora is a contemporary German American artist and illustrator, lives and works in New York, is teaching in New York right now. And we're very fortunate to have this exhibition of her work here on campus. Michelle Kinsey (25:58): And this is, and correct me if I'm wrong, but I know that it's been a little while at least, since I've seen an exhibit like this one, an exhibition like this one at DOMA. Robert LaFrance (26:11): Well, actually, it's a fairly new thing for us. One of the main points I want people to take away from this is it's the real celebration of illustration, the art of illustration. Michelle Kinsey (26:20): So, talk a little bit about Nora Krug and why she is a little different when it comes to, most people would call some of these things, Belonging, her most popular one, graphic novels, but it's another level, isn't it? You referred to it as a graphic memoir. Robert LaFrance (26:39): A graphic memoir. This is a book in which Nora explores her family and her heritage. It's called Belonging. Actually, the German title is Heimat. Heimat is one of those wonderful German words that doesn't exactly translate into English, but many people translate it simply as homeland. (26:57): But as Nora does, she calls it belonging, because heimat is really that sense of where you come from, maybe culturally, not just physically, or where you feel that you belong. And so that's where she got the title from. Michelle Kinsey (27:11): Okay. Well, we've got a lot to see, so let's get started. Robert LaFrance (27:15): Okay. So, we begin on this level with an explanation of Belonging, the book and what it's about, the main themes that go out through the book. The beginning of the book starts with a interaction between Nora and an older woman she finds on a rooftop in New York City. (27:34): She finds out that this older woman was a concentration camp survivor and had spotted Nora as a German. This is a guilt that Nora carries with her, even though she had nothing to do with the war. She was born decades after the war was over. She still carries that with her and she decides to explore that part of her German heritage throughout the book, Belonging. Michelle Kinsey (27:54): That's a life-changing moment- Robert LaFrance (27:56): It is. Michelle Kinsey (27:58): ... on a rooftop with a stranger. That's fascinating. Robert LaFrance (27:59): There are some other images here. Another case where Nora, as a young woman, traveled to Japan. She meets some people there, some Japanese people. They say, "Where are you from?" When she says, "Germany," look how they respond. Michelle Kinsey (28:12): Oh, my goodness. Robert LaFrance (28:12): They immediately say Heil Hitler and they connect her with World War II. Again, she was born in the 1970s, she has nothing to do with the war, yet she carries this with her. Michelle Kinsey (28:24): It literally says, "Whenever I traveled abroad, her guilt traveled with her." Robert LaFrance (28:32): Powerful. Michelle Kinsey (28:32): Yes. Robert LaFrance (28:34): But one of the most powerful things is this set of photographs in which Nora placed photographs that she had taken as a young lady touring in a Nazi concentration camp with her schoolmates as a teenager. She has these photographs here of some of her schoolmates after the tour, and you can just see the anguish on their faces after learning what happened there. Michelle Kinsey (28:56): Just devastated. Robert LaFrance (28:58): And yet she juxtaposed those or compared them with photographs that Nora bought at flea markets of Nazi soldiers, many of whom could have worked in those concentration camps, here playing with their pets as if they had normal lives. Michelle Kinsey (29:10): Yes. Robert LaFrance (29:11): And those atrocities are just swept under the rug. So, it's a strange juxtaposition- Michelle Kinsey (29:17): It really is. Robert LaFrance (29:17): ... between the atrocities of the war, and then the way that these soldiers are acting in these photographs. Michelle Kinsey (29:22): Yeah. There are photos of them petting dogs, holding it looks to be lambs. Just these very joyful photos in their uniforms might I add, but it's just... Oh, the contrast. Robert LaFrance (29:41): The other half of the room over here, including one of these cases, includes illustrations by Nora Krug for a number of different things. I like to say she used a conventional comic book format to tell very unconventional stories. Michelle Kinsey (29:56): Yes. Like you said, these are tackling very difficult topics in a format that we normally think of as light and fun. Robert LaFrance (30:04): As comic books. Michelle Kinsey (30:06): Love that. Love that. Well, we have more to say. Robert LaFrance (30:08): Should we go upstairs? Michelle Kinsey (30:09): Absolutely. Let's do it. Robert LaFrance (30:10): Okay. Let's do that. So, this part of the show is based on Nora's adaptation and illustrations for Timothy Snyder's book, On Tyranny. You can see here at the beginning of the exhibition in a case, Nora's copy of Timothy Snyder's original small book, which is text only. You can see her beginning to sketch out ideas and motifs that she uses and expands into all the artwork that you see on the walls in these upper floors. Michelle Kinsey (30:46): I love this. I love all the page markings. I love how she did little sketches on other pieces of paper and stapled it to the book itself. Robert LaFrance (30:56): Precisely. You can see her starting with words and then creating visual ideas out of the words- Michelle Kinsey (31:02): Wow. Robert LaFrance (31:02): ... and putting them down on the page. Michelle Kinsey (31:04): So, so beyond just your two-dimensional. Robert LaFrance (31:09): Is this a good time for us to mention that Nora Krug will be here on campus? Michelle Kinsey (31:12): It's a great time. Robert LaFrance (31:13): That's great. Michelle Kinsey (31:15): Because I have a lot of questions for her. Robert LaFrance (31:16): Good. She'll be here on March 11th, that's a Wednesday. She'll be giving a talk in Sursa Hall, not here at the museum, but across the street at Sursa Hall at 6:00 PM on March 11th. So, you have a chance to ask questions, to meet Nora. She's going to talk about the graphic novel and her work for these particular projects and others. Michelle Kinsey (31:36): That's great. That's wonderful. What a great opportunity. Robert LaFrance (31:40): So, what I suggest that people do when they come to the upper level of this show on the top floor is they grab a copy of On Tyranny. We have several around the room. If you look at the labels on the wall, it will tell you what page number the drawing is for. Michelle Kinsey (31:54): Wow. Robert LaFrance (31:56): It goes through all the lessons. There's 20 lessons in total. It goes through each one and you can see the different phases of the development of ideas. For example, in this one, you could see Nora's original line drawing and pencil of this pig with a Russian writing on the chest there. This goes back to the idea that Stalin started classifying wealthy farmers as pigs, and kept repeating that they were pigs. They were pigs. (32:27): Well, if you dehumanize someone enough and turn them into a pig, it makes it easier to slaughter them later. So, this particular lesson is Lesson 4: Take responsibility for the face of the world. It's about taking on symbols and words and language that are problematic like this, that dehumanize people. The final lesson is a really interesting one. (32:54): Lesson 20 is part of the epilogue: Be as courageous as you can. So, even in the face of difficulties, you should still be as courageous as you can to fight against them. Michelle Kinsey (33:06): That leads me to the question, Bob, why was this so important for DOMA to have this exhibit now? What prompted you to say, "We need to do this now?" Robert LaFrance (33:16): Well, really, I did want to bring in something with illustration and animation. That's such a growing field and so important to our students. And then again, there are various tyrannies occurring across the planet right now, and these are great lessons to learn. (33:30): One of the really important lessons to go back a little bit is Lesson 11: Investigate. I want to encourage people to investigate everything. There's an image that recurs as a motif in Nora's illustrations of the man with no eyes. (33:49): It's when you lose your ability to look and to investigate that tyrants are able to do whatever they'd like to do, essentially. So, investigative reporting, investigating for yourself, trying to sort the difference between fact and fiction. Michelle Kinsey (34:05): Absolutely. I don't think I have used the word vetting more than I have in the last few years. Everything I see is, "Well, let me vet that. I'll get back to you. I need to vet it first." I think we all need to be doing that a little more than we have maybe in the past. (34:23): So, I love the Lesson 11: Investigate. That's a great one. Well, thank you so much- Robert LaFrance (34:29): You're welcome. Michelle Kinsey (34:29): ... Bob, for showing us around the exhibit. Remind us again how long this will be on display? Robert LaFrance (34:35): The show opened on February 19th and it closes on June 13th, 2026. Don't forget that Nora Krug will be here on campus on March 11th, that's a Wednesday night at Sursa Hall at 6:00 PM. So, come and see her. Michelle Kinsey (34:48): For more information, what's the website for DOMA? Robert LaFrance (34:53): You can always go to bsu.edu/doma, D-O-M-A. Michelle Kinsey (34:54): Perfect. Thank you so much once again. Robert LaFrance (34:57): You're welcome. Michelle Kinsey (34:58): This is a wonderful exhibit. Robert LaFrance (34:59): Thank you. Michelle Kinsey (35:00): During our tour of the museum, Director LaFrance pointed out one of my favorite works that's going to visit the Metropolitan Museum of Art in New York City. Lee Krasner's abstract painting, Right Bird Left, is over 11 feet long. So, how do you deliver a big and very expensive piece of art? He explained how that works. Robert LaFrance (35:27): Lee Krasner was married to Jackson Pollock, Jackson Pollock, the most famous abstract expressionist artist in the world. He married him for a fairly short amount of time, 10 years or so. They got divorced. He crashed his car and died. And then she suddenly burst out on the art scene in 1965 with her first show. Our painting by Lee Krasner is from 1965. So, it's really pivotal- Michelle Kinsey (35:53): I am obsessed with this. Robert LaFrance (35:53): ... in her career and you love this picture. We all do, Right Bird Left. Well, they love it so much it's going to be in a Krasner/Pollock exhibition at the Metropolitan Museum of Art, which opens in September. So, we're sending it. Michelle Kinsey (36:08): But will you get it back though? Robert LaFrance (36:08): We will get it back. Michelle Kinsey (36:09): Okay. Good. Robert LaFrance (36:09): We're going to send it to New York in August. It'll be in New York through the fall and we'll get it back early in the spring next year. Michelle Kinsey (36:15): Because this is literally the piece that I always tell people to see. I have to make sure that they come here. Robert LaFrance (36:20): Well, they're going to have to go to New York and see it at the Met this fall. Michelle Kinsey (36:22): Well, it'll be back, so that'll be nice. Because I always think, oh, I would love to have this as a fabric. And I've always thought that. It's beautiful. Robert LaFrance (36:32): It's beautiful. We're going to finish preparing it for its trip on Monday, because we're closed this next week. Michelle Kinsey (36:38): And so what does- Robert LaFrance (36:39): So, we'll take it down. Michelle Kinsey (36:39): ... that take to prepare it and... Robert LaFrance (36:41): Well, first off, you have to make sure that the frame, and this is a very thin frame, we make sure the frame is in perfect condition because it's going to be handled a lot. And then we need to stiffen the back, we're putting in backing boards. And then between the canvas and the back of the wooden stretcher, there's like an armature that this canvas is stretched onto, we call it a stretcher. (37:01): We put in a synthetic batting, so that when it's in the truck, if you just left it alone, you put it in the truck, the canvas will do this and that could cause the paint to loosen. But if you have a backing on it and it's stuffed with a delicate, almost like pillow stuffing, it's like a Dacron interior. Michelle Kinsey (37:19): Yes. Robert LaFrance (37:19): It doesn't act like a drum anymore. It stays relatively stiff, and that way the paint doesn't vibrate off. Because you have things like this called impasto. See that lump of paint on there? Michelle Kinsey (37:29): Yep. Robert LaFrance (37:30): If that were to vibrate for 1,000 mile trip to New York, that could possibly fall off. So, instead, we're going to reduce that vibration. Also, we put it into a special crate and on these floating bars, they're called Oz Clips, which clip it into the crate. So, it floats within the wooden crate, so it's never actually touched or rubbed in any way. (37:53): It will arrive literally floating in a crate like that. Arrive in New York, they'll take it directly from the crate, put it on the wall. Go back in the crate, come back here at the end of the time. Michelle Kinsey (38:03): That's fascinating. So, the exhibit is in September? Robert LaFrance (38:06): It's hardly be [inaudible 00:38:05] at all. It's in September. It opens in mid-September in New York at the Metropolitan Museum. Michelle Kinsey (38:09): How long will it be there? Robert LaFrance (38:11): I think through Christmas. Michelle Kinsey (38:12): Oh, wow. And someone travels with the painting from DOMA, right? Robert LaFrance (38:16): I would probably be the courier that goes with it to make sure that the truck doesn't turn off a... Turn off the Pennsylvania turnpike and disappear. Michelle Kinsey (38:24): I'll go with it. It's just like until it is on the wall, I'm your best friend. Robert LaFrance (38:27): Yeah, exactly. I watch it constantly. I will not be handcuffed to the painting, but... Michelle Kinsey (38:33): But close enough. Robert LaFrance (38:33): Close enough. Michelle Kinsey (38:57): This is Pop of Culture. I'm Michelle Kinsey. Jen Blackmer (38:59): I'm Jen Blackmer. Kara DuQuette (39:00): And I'm Kara DuQuette. Michelle Kinsey (39:02): Instead of our regular, what are you working on segment today, we have two arts curators in studio to tell us about exhibitions that feature the younger artists in our community. Kara DuQuette (39:13): One of these guests is Stephanie Michaels, and she is the program director for Cornerstone Center for the Arts in Muncie, Indiana. Stephanie Michaels (39:20): Hi, it's so great to be here. Kara DuQuette (39:22): She plays a large role in shaping community arts, programming, and exhibitions. Also with us is Karen Fisher, who is also deeply connected to the growth of the arts and artists in Muncie. Karen Fisher (39:34): Hi. Kara DuQuette (39:35): Karen is connected to the arts in so many ways, but for the sake of time, I'm just going to mention she's a visual artist and the owner of Art Mart in the Village, and a member of the Muncie Artists Guild. We're excited to have you both here, so let's jump right in and find out about the upcoming Young Artists Exhibition. Stephanie Michaels (39:54): So, the Muncie Young Artist Exhibit is open to all of Delaware County students, and you can be from kindergarten to 10th grade. Originally, it was kindergarten through 12th. Cornerstone took a little bit of a break for a few years, but the Muncie Artists Guild picked up that slack and they started doing an 11th and 12th grade show at Westminster. (40:16): So, we've kept that going and kept that partnership. So, Cornerstone is now K through 10 and it's open to any medium. Any artist student wants to create, they can do it through their school, or they can do it as an individual. Kara DuQuette (40:31): Okay. Well, now Stephanie, you mentioned that Cornerstone took a break for a while. So, Karen, could you talk about that period of time? Karen Fisher (40:39): Sure. Muncie Artists Guild has a, it's called the Susie Burns Memorial Scholarship, and that we had worked previously with Cornerstone to give that scholarship away. That goes to junior or a senior in high school, and we have been able to expand that a little bit. And so we have a 2D category and a 3D category, and those students are chosen by the art teachers. Kara DuQuette (41:09): Okay. So, with all of this community togetherness, working together, how long has this exhibition been in existence? Stephanie Michaels (41:21): As we both look at each other. Kara DuQuette (41:23): Was just curious. Stephanie Michaels (41:24): Based on my just trying to find paperwork through Cornerstone, I think this is the eighth year, but I would assume that Cornerstone has probably done some version of some student show in the past. Kara DuQuette (41:38): Well, I know that this exhibit is happening at the Cornerstone, and Stephanie, I know you have museum curation experience. Are you curating the show or how does that work? Stephanie Michaels (41:49): Everything gets accepted. And then we had six wonderful judges from the Muncie Artists Guild come and we had a judging rubric. And they gave the numbers and then they added up the numbers and averaged them, and then the highest number, of course, got the prizes. So, everything was accepted, but it was juried and judged. Kara DuQuette (42:12): Okay. Now Karen, what is your role this year? Karen Fisher (42:16): I'm the chair of this committee, the scholarship committee. And so we have a wonderful little committee that we've had put together for about five years now. We also use a rubric, not exactly the same one that Stephanie uses, but very similar to. It takes any judgmentalness out of the judging of the art, because it gives you a number and the highest number just wins. (42:45): Our winners are everyone that's participating because they're already a winner being chosen by their teacher. We try to recognize all the kids that are there, whether they're the winners or not, because they are winners just being shown in an art show. (43:01): Because we have ours at Westminster, we also have the seniors that live there, come in and they enjoy the art while it's there. They come to the program, they talk with the seniors and juniors in high school. So, it's a very lovely picture to see a lot of old folks talking to a lot of young folks about the artwork that they produce. It's just lovely. Kara DuQuette (43:28): I think that's great when you can connect a multi-generational grouping of people. I want to know what you both feel is important about this show. Stephanie Michaels (43:40): I think showing art builds confidence. There's a feeling of accomplishment. I remember submitting artwork. My local newspaper had a thing where you could submit art and your picture would get in the newspaper. It's just such a rush and a good rush of feeling. (44:00): And so I think this is a great opportunity for students to feel that confidence, but also to get out, meet other students in their county. During the opening, I'm hoping we'll have all kinds of different schools. We have 15 schools that entered. There is 149 pieces that were submitted. (44:19): So, there's a good chunk of students in this county that can meet each other. And kindergartners can see their work on display with a 10th grader, which I think is really cool. Kara DuQuette (44:31): Yeah. That breaks down some barriers. And also, when would all of these people otherwise get to meet? Stephanie Michaels (44:37): Correct. Karen Fisher (44:38): Right, right. Or get to see their art. It really does give you a feeling of euphoria to have a piece of yours shown to the public. I know that personally. I can't get too bummed if I don't get accepted, but that's just life. So, you can't take that personally, and that's a good lesson for young kids to learn. (45:04): It's not anything to say about you personally, whether your art is accepted or not. It just has a lot to do with what the judge likes. So, using a rubric really takes a lot of that pressure from the judge away, I think. Kara DuQuette (45:19): Oh no, it certainly does. I know one of the fun things that I like to do when I'm showing out is hang about around my artwork, see what's being said. Karen Fisher (45:31): Sure. Kara DuQuette (45:32): But I have to prepare myself ahead of time. You can't be concerned about what is said, just interested. Stephanie Michaels (45:39): I am also part of the Art Association of Madison County, which that show is also up right now until the 14th, which is open just to high school students. But we've noticed this time that the artwork themes have gotten lighter. It got really dark during COVID. The artwork coming out of these students was just dark and there was no other... We all noticed it and we didn't know how to explain it. (46:02): And then we realized this year, there's sunsets and they're drawing pets again, and there's flowers, and people are happy. I don't have a comparison here for Delaware County, but I do know in Madison County it's been happier, which is a positive and happy thing. Karen Fisher (46:19): Oh, that's interesting, Stephanie. It's very interesting. Kara DuQuette (46:22): Yeah. I'm very happy to hear that. Well, can you let us know when both of these... Actually, all three of the shows that you mentioned are coming up, and we'll end with the one that we initially were talking about. Stephanie Michaels (46:36): Yeah. So, the Art Association of Madison County Student Exhibition is on display at the Anderson Museum of Art until March 14th. Cornerstone's Young Artist Exhibit opens this Sunday, March 8th. We'll do awards at 1:00 PM in the auditorium, and then we'll go upstairs to the second floor and have reception. (46:57): The winners will be hung in our Judith Barnes Gallery while the other pieces submitted will be on display in the Heritage Room. So, all there on the second floor. Karen Fisher (47:08): The Muncie Artists Guild Scholarship Exhibit reception is on April 1st, which is really not a joke. It is open to the public from 6:00 to 8:00 PM. Kara DuQuette (47:21): Well, wonderful. We've been talking with Karen Fisher and we have been talking with Stephanie Michaels and thanks again for being here. Stephanie Michaels (47:31): Thank you. Karen Fisher (47:34): Thank you. Michelle Kinsey (47:40): Jen. Jen Blackmer (47:41): What? Michelle Kinsey (47:42): It's that time. Jen Blackmer (47:43): Yes. Michelle Kinsey (47:43): Let's dig in to the arts calendar. Jen Blackmer (47:46): Dig away. Michelle Kinsey (47:47): The Young Artist's Exhibition opens this weekend at Cornerstone Center for the Arts in Downtown Muncie. YAE celebrates the creativity, individuality, and self-expression of Delaware County students in kindergarten through 10th grade, including both public and homeschooled students. Jen Blackmer (48:04): Very cool. Momix Alice will take the stage, or shall I say, go down the rabbit hole at Emens Auditorium, March 10th. The show inspired by Alice in Wonderland is given new life by this inventive dance company. This Alice story blends illusion, acrobatics, and plenty of whimsy into a mind-bending adventure. Michelle Kinsey (48:25): Ooh, that sounds fun. On Wednesday, March 11th, artist, Nora Krug, will be on the Ball State campus to talk about her new exhibition at the David Ousley Museum of Art. The talk will begin at 6:00 PM in Sursa Performance Hall. Jen Blackmer (48:40): The Anderson Young Ballet Theater will present Coppélia, Saturday and Sunday, March 7th and 8th at the Paramount Theater in Anderson. This comic ballet is filled with fun, romance, and a touch of mischief. (48:53): As you follow the story of a lifelike doll, a curious young couple and the magic that unfolds in a village square. Andersonparamount.org has all the details. Michelle Kinsey (49:05): Take3 will perform March 13th at Pruis Hall at Ball State. The trios' tagline is where rock meets buck. I love that. The group merges pop, rock, oldies, Americana and country. This genre smashing vocal and instrumental trio has been described by audience goers as a mini trans-Siberian orchestra experience. Jen Blackmer (49:27): A mini trans-Siberian. Michelle Kinsey (49:30): Just a little bit. Just a skosh of trans-Siberian orchestra. The experience begins at 7:30 PM. Jen Blackmer (49:37): Orchestra Indiana will present In Search of Magic, March 14th at 4:00 PM and 7:30 PM at Muncie Central High School. The concert will be a spell-binding evening of music from the Harry Potter films. From the whimsical charm of the Sorcerer's Stone to the dark drama of the Deathly Hallows, this concert brings to life the unforgettable themes and magic moments that have captivated audiences for decades. Michelle Kinsey (50:03): Hard to believe it's been decades, right? Jen Blackmer (50:05): I know, right? Michelle Kinsey (50:05): I remember standing in line for the books when they came out. Jen Blackmer (50:08): Yes, right. Exactly. Michelle Kinsey (50:10): New Castle Main Street in partnership with Indiana On Tap will present the fifth annual New Castle on Tap St. Paddy's Day Festival on March 14th at the Arts Park Pavilion. And that's at the Arts Association of Henry County in downtown New Castle. (50:26): This 21 and older event will feature tasty pourers from 20 plus craft breweries, wineries, and distilleries from all over the state, food vendors and live entertainment. And just so you know, we will have more St. Patrick's Day shenanigans on next week's calendar. Jen Blackmer (50:43): Send us your shenanigans at indianapublicradio.org/contact, then click Pop of Culture. Luke Jones (51:02): Support for Pop of Culture comes from Stallings Wealth Management, the Innovation Connector, and from you. With state and federal money eliminated, you are the difference in keeping local programming on the air at IPR. Become a member today at indianapublicradio.org. Michelle Kinsey (51:25): And that's our show. Our art director is Tracie Louck. (51:29): This week was produced by Luke Jones, who also dreams of getting dressed up and standing in front of a television audience of millions giving a speech. I'm sorry, did I say dream? I meant nightmare. That is his nightmare. (51:42): Our audio fellow is Maya Doss. Our show was hosted by me, Michelle Kinsey. Jen Blackmer (51:47): And me, Jen Blackmer. Pop of Culture is a production from IPR on the campus of Ball State University. Luke Jones (51:56): How do you greet people at Cornerstone? Stephanie Michaels (51:59): Oh, gosh. Oh, are you lost? Here, let me help you find you. Because that's usually ... No, the door is right here. I know it's tiny, but this is the exit. Luke Jones (52:10): This cable is long, so just make sure you don't trip over it, okay? Michelle Kinsey (52:11): Okay. All right. (52:13): Well... Robert LaFrance (52:16): Wrap it around your ankle like a snare. Luke Jones (52:21): We will absolutely be using that audio if it happens. Michelle Kinsey (52:21): He just foreshadowed exactly what's going to happen. It's inevitable.