[Sean Ashcraft] Support for Pop of Culture comes from Stallings Wealth Management. Daniel Stallings, Financial Advisor. Securities and Advisory Services offered through Cetera Advisors, LLC. Member FINRA/SIPC, a broker/dealer and registered investment advisor. Cetera is under separate ownership from any other named entity. [Kara DuQuette] This week on Pop of Culture, the return of Long Haul Paul. [Paul Marhoefer] I was in the office for one year. It was a doomed experiment. [Michelle Kinsey] The Long Haul trucker and singer-songwriter shares stories and songs, accompanied by banjoist Ric Dwenger. [Kara] And it's time for our summer book club. [Hannah Bradshaw] I did bring, you know, a list of books that will give you that vibe that are not just about the beach. [Michelle] That and more coming up. [Luke Jones] Support for Pop of Culture comes from Stallings Wealth Management and from you. You may have heard about large gifts to NPR. Those donations are important, but they don't bring back the funding to IPR. Your support pays for the programs you rely on, especially local programs like this one, and the people like me who create them. Pop of Culture exists for you and because of you. Give today at indianapublicradio.org. [Michelle] From Indiana Public Radio, this is Pop of Culture. I'm Michelle Kinsey,. [Kara] And I'm Kara DuWuette. It's hot outside, which means it's a perfect time to cool off in your local public library. Our book club will meet later this hour. [Michelle] But we're going to start the show by welcoming back one of our favorite guests. Long Haul Paul is a lifelong East Central Indiana resident. When he's not long-haul trucking, which, by his own account, is most of the time, he's singing, playing guitar, and writing songs. He joined us in the Pop studios. A note for listeners with sensitive ears, Long Haul Paul uses some long-haul trucker language during his performance. Alright. Well, thank you so much for coming into the studio. We're here with Paul Marhoefer and Ric Dwenger. They're both musicians, and we're fortunate to have Paul back again with us. And we're happy to have Rick for the first time. [Paul] I don't have to, I don't have to go, I don't have to do "ahhh" here do I? No, this is NPR. [Kara] Well, we want to let's just get started by why don't you play something for us? That would be wonderful. [Paul] Alright, this is a little thing called "A Seed," and [Kara] You want to talk about it first? [Paul] Yeah, I got the idea for this song. I was in Holly just outside of Hollyrood, Kansas, which is the geographical center of the contiguous 48 states. And I was thinking about this scripture about how a grain of wheat has to fall in the ground and die before it could come back again. And this was, like, the lowest point in my life. I'd been in this wreck, and I didn't think feel like, you know, we had lost everything in this wreck. And I didn't think my marriage would last. And I said, "Well, maybe if we just let it die and maybe it'll come back." And so that's where that song came from. [Kara] Alright. [Paul] I I told you I wasn't gonna be depressing. That's depressing, isn't it? [Kara] It's not depressing because you made it through and you're here. [Paul] We made it through, and my beautiful wife's here, uh, 44 years this August. [Denise Marhoefer] It'll be 45 in August. [Paul] 45 in August, so there you go. [Kara] That's outstanding. [Denise] We Came back. [Paul] We came back. There we go. ♪♪ A seed ain't ♪♪ nothing but husk and bark. ♪♪ Wrapped around the itty bitty spark, ♪♪ and all it needs is down in the dark, ♪♪ the deep dark dirt to die. ♪♪ And when it dies, it bears the root. ♪♪ Hungry for the light, ♪♪ so it makes a shoot and it ♪♪ reaches for the sun in the big blue sky. ♪♪ That's how the corn grows high. ♪♪ And I got a seed a seed that's down in me. ♪♪ Come from Alabama up to Tennessee. ♪♪ Up to Indiana. ♪♪ I'm back in 53 looking for that union scale. ♪♪And I hear that see deep down in me. ♪♪ Every time I try and fail, ♪♪ get up, get up, ♪♪ though you fall before you walk. ♪♪ Child you got to crawl. ♪♪ And if you want to be a son of man, ♪♪ you got to let your little light shine. ♪♪ Shine. ♪♪ I got my BC powder in the pentatonic scale, ♪♪ turn it up loud and let the resonator wail. ♪♪ Martin Luther King on the Spotify. ♪♪ Let him ring, let them ring into the bye and bye. ♪♪ I've been running from Jesus, ♪♪ running from the law been ♪♪ busting in and pounding down on Arkansas, ♪♪ but I never knew no state of ♪♪ grace till I walked along the wall on that Natchez. ♪♪ Trace. ♪♪ Step by step, stone by stone. ♪♪ Down to the river ♪♪ that calls me home. ♪♪ He got her country music and his eyes just roll. ♪♪ He said it got on my heart. ♪♪ It got on my soul, ♪♪ so he whooped him up a river, ♪♪ said," Let it roll." ♪♪ Made him up a place and called him muscle show. ♪♪ They don't know we don't need Nashville. ♪♪ They don't know it all moved ♪♪ to Asheville wouldn't listen. ♪♪ Look at what it costs him. ♪♪ It all moved to Asheville. ♪♪ Muscle shows in Austin. ♪♪ I've been thinking about Mahatma Gandhi. ♪♪ You know, he swore off that dang cigarettes and candy. ♪♪ He fasted 27 days and ♪♪ nights so that the children ♪♪ of India could learn how not to fight. ♪♪ He was a good man living and a great man dead. ♪♪ Lord have mercy took a bullet in the head, ♪♪ a bull and hen but a crying shame. ♪♪ Does anybody recall that gunman's name? ♪♪ They don't know we don't need Nashville. ♪♪ And they don't know it all moved to Asheville. ♪♪ Wouldn't listen. Look at what it casting. ♪♪ It all moved to Asheville, ♪♪ muscle shows in Austin. ♪♪ A seed ain't nothing, but in a bit of thing. ♪♪ Like these little songs I sing. ♪♪ You can carry them away by ♪♪ birds and wind to be gone today. ♪♪ Back again, they'll be back again on ♪♪ high ground reaching for the sun like a joyful sound, ♪♪ feeding the flocks on 1,000 hills. ♪♪ You say won't, I know it will. ♪♪ You say it won't, I know it will. ♪♪ You say won't, I know it will. ♪♪ If you can't fly, then run. ♪♪ If you can't run, then walk. ♪♪ If you can't walk, ♪♪ then crawl, but always move forward. ♪♪ If you can't fly, then run. ♪♪ If you can't run, then walk. ♪♪ If you can't walk, then crawl, but always move forward. ♪♪ You can fly, then run. ♪♪ If you can run, then walk. ♪♪ If you can walk, then crawl. ♪♪ But always move forward. [Kara] Whoo. Thank you. Wow. Outstanding. [Paul] Thank you. [Kara] That was insanely inspiring and talking about the human spirit in a way that's making me want to get up and run. [Paul] Good deal. Good deal. [Kara] Well, I want to know how long you two have known each other and have been playing together. You sound very symbiotic. [Ric Dwenger] Ah, I think we met Paul in the Fall of 1981, actually. [Paul[ Was it 81? [Ric] That's that's when I went to work. That's when we became coworkers. We became coworkers at White Feather Farm. [Kara] Oh, yes. [Ric] Mm hmm. And, uh, Mm hmm. [Kara] I don't know if everybody knows about White Feather Farms. It was a pretty great place here. [Ric] It was institutional for a lot of years here in town. A lot of people made it their regular Saturday morning stop, as well as a wide distribution of deli products that it went to supermarkets all around the state. [Paul] I was in the office for one year. It was a doomed experiment because I was a truck driver for them, and they brought me in the office for a year. And, Ric, um, do you have any recollections of that time? [Ric] Oh, yeah. Well, the office was hollow-closet doors stacked on top of file cabinets, and Paul and I sat next to each other. And I kept a messy desk. By comparison. His side kind of encroached into mine. But we had a lot of fun together, cutting up, feeding off of each other's humor and. [Kara] I'm assuming the doomed part of the experiment was trying to keep Long Haul Paul in an office. Is this true? [Paul] Yeah. Yeah. They, I've tried two white-collar jobs in my life, and I was just miserable at both of them. And I I have to be outside working, which and so I went back on the road for White Feather Farms as one of their delivery drivers. But during that time, Ric and I discovered a shared love of John Prine. [Kara] Mm. [Paul] It's difficult for you young people here today, to imagine the utter scarcity of sound. You had to own a record to hear those songs. You couldn't just go on your phone and find them. And so, Ric had a John Prine album I didn't have, and I had a John Prine album that he didn't have. And so we became John Prine friends. And I think [Ric] Took them home and taped them is what we did. [Paul] Is that what you did actually? [Rick] Yeah, I taped yours, and I'm assuming you taped mine. [Paul] I've never met a John Prine fan I didn't really like a lot. And I reconsidered several friendships for people not knowing who John Prine was. [Kara] Fair enough. [Paul] And I don't know how this happened, Ric, but I think I said, "Yeah, I write some songs," and he said, "Well, come on, by." And so, Ricc has been a mentor to me. He's five years older than me and friend for a long time. And he said, "Well, sing me some of your songs." And I wound up singing every song I'd ever written to Rick that day, which was about 20 at that point, back in 70, 81. And I can remember feeling so embarrassed for doing that. I like, disgorged myself. [Kara] You were moved. [Paul] But he was a great mentor, and I guess I instinctively trusted him. [Kara] Well, so, can you talk a little bit about the two latest albums you've dropped? [Paul] Well, so Ric will be helping me perform some of these songs. [Kara] Okay. [Paul] But I can't I have a hard time booking him because he keeps being stolen by this local band called The Fierce. [Kara] Oh, I've heard of them. [Paul] And I'm not suggesting he's a piece of human chattel that it's taken from me, but he's so busy with The Fierce that. [Ric] Appreciate that plug. [Paul] In fact, I think one of your colleagues is in that band. [Kara] Indeed, she is. [Ric] Mm hmm. [Kara] Michelle Kinsey. [Ric] Yep. [Paul] But anyways, Ric it is definitely going to have a footprint on the next album. And we were working out. This banjo he plays is like a throwback banjo. It's called a claw hammer. And it was the type of banjo that people field workers, people would play when, you know, people that were swinging hoes and axes. And so their hand would you couldn't you didn't have much dexterity in your hand, so picture your hand in, like, this claw-type form. And that's how he picks. And, um [Ric] And I've never done a day of manual labor in my whole life. But somehow or another, that that style grabs me. And so I taught myself to do it. [Paul] So I've got some songs in this next album that are going to be kind of like this song "Wildwood," I just there's a certain foreboding quality about a claw hammer banjo. And I think what I'm gonna do, I'm going to I'm gonna make this banjo of Rick's sort of like a like a I think the word is light motif. Whenever people it's sort of like "Kill Bill" when you hear that song. You know, she's fixing to kill someone. Well, when people hear that banjo, they know something horribles fixing to happen. [Kara] Okay. [Paul] This is my time to tune, so [Kara] Well, one of the things I love about your music is so I feel like there's a level of realism to it. You, like, don't sugarcoat things. You highlight the good, but you put the not-so-good right up there to be seen. Heard. Felt. [Paul] Yeah. Well, I think my thing is, I usually I don't write unless something has aggrieved me, I guess, so writing sort of helps to lighten the load. And a friend of mine, he's bought some of my albums. He goes, "My wife says, 'Does everyone die in all of his songs?'" And I'm like, "I've got some songs where people haven't died." Uh, you know, there's two or three. [Kara] We're all still here, you know? [Paul] And but I was out on US-50, I think. What's that? No? No, 36 West of St. Joe, Missouri, West of Elwood, Kansas, they call that the "Pony Express Trail." Back when I was running pretty hard and and that's his own torture, like, being an overoad trucker trying to run three log books and stay awake as much as you can, it's his own mental torture. And I would read the Bible almost compulsively because it would sort of put me in a better mood. And I was thinking about Cain, and Cain was cursed to wander and, and, like, he couldn't stop wandering. You know, that was his job to wander. And I thought, maybe, like, maybe I'm like Cain. And, you know, I know prolonged sleeplessness does things to the mind. But it does sort of open a certain creative window, but it also can sort of there's sort of a lot of highs and lows in that. But this song is called "Wildwood." [Kara] Alright? [Paul] Do you want to start us off Ric? ♪♪ I've always been wanderer. ♪♪ The easy way I scone. ♪♪ I've only yearned for yonder ♪♪ from the dark day I was born. ♪♪ Anywhere, but here, lo. ♪♪ I cried out since ♪♪ my childhood and take me back, take me back. ♪♪ Take me back to Wildwood ♪♪ There I fell in with the wicked. ♪♪ I fell in with the vile. We shambled every low road debauched, ♪♪ debased, defiled. ♪♪ There I lost my landlord for the preachers that I chow. ♪♪ Now only darkness finds me like coal dust on my clothes, ♪♪ Then there was a woman. ♪♪ There was an Eden. There was a serpent ♪♪ guileful and deceiving, and now ♪♪ there's a mark, a mark upon my name, ♪♪ which condemns me to wander. ♪♪ Cursed am I as Cain. ♪♪ All that I ask before ♪♪ they laid me all down, ♪♪ there's 500 horses and that low rumbling sound. ♪♪ Lord, let me run to the very day I die ♪♪ for the blood of my brother from the ground to Christ. ♪♪ And there was woman. There was an Eden. ♪♪ There was a serpent, guileful and deceiving. ♪♪ And now there's a mark, a mark upon my name, ♪♪ which condemns me to wander, ♪♪ Cursed am I as Cain. [Kara] Excellent. I was thinking about you writing in this kind of crazed creative potal that you said opens fueled by, you know, coffee and wandering, which I don't like thinking about the driving part, but I like thinking about the creative part. So how does it happen? What happens? [Paul] Well, I'm not that way anymore. That was a song. One thing a lot of these songs were composed 20 or 30 years ago, and and I just, you know, was a closet songwriter, and then the Internet happened, and then recording became affordable. So I mean, I've recorded over 100 songs since we started out ten years ago now. [Kara] Mm hm. And because it's become affordable, and we've also had some wonderful trucking companies and patrons come along to help us, you know? Because my wife, Denise, is here with us in the studio, and she says, "Paul, every time you get a creative idea, I hear the ching ching of money leaving our bank account." And so, um I, you know, I was more prolific when I was, you know, not legal. I mean, I'm not talking I'm talking about just the what truckers used to sort of, um, circumvent the hours of service regulation. [Kara] Sure. [Paul] When I was that guy, I was more creative. But I'm finding ways to remain creative. And I think it's like if I work as hard as I can work and allow that to put me in a state of disgruntlement, I can write pretty well. I've got to be disgruntled to write. [Kara] Okay. That's your fuel. Yeah. Just remain disgruntled. [Ric] I don't know what that says about when you'd come back from a day of driving when we were together at White Feather Farms. Half the time you'd have a new song that you'd be singing to me that you'd made up that day, you know, on the road that day. Songs like "I Live The Cheese Lifestyle." [Paul] "I Live The Cheese Lifestyle." Okay. You know, without rehearsal, I'm willing to do that for you. [Kara] Please. [Paul] ♪♪ I I live the cheese lifestyle. ♪♪ I'm smooth as can be. ♪♪ I'm sharper than cheddar. ♪♪ I'm smoother than Brie from Lorraine to Lappi. [Ric] Lappi comes Lorraine to something and then Lappi from to Lappi. [Paul] Yeah, yeah, you're right. You're right. ♪♪ From Lorraine to Gruyere to Lappi. ♪♪ She has always been Gouda to me. [Kara] I love it. That doesn't sound like [laughter]. [Paul] No. [Kara] Not with the cheese. [Ric] Came from a maybe came from that place. [Paul] Well, they rolled out this promo, which was remember that fondue promo we had at White Feather Farms? And there were all these Scandinavian people on turtlenecks. [Kara] Made you mad? [Paul] Gathering around the fondue. They were all, like, very Nordic-looking and, like, it's called "Live the Cheese Lifestyle." And I think we were distributing these things to marshes everywhere. They were a pop-up, you know, endcap things. I don't remember, but it was I was like, I just wasn't vibing with the, uh [Kara] Midwest? [Paul] Yeah, yeah, yeah. [Kara] Made cheese bougie? [Paul] Yeah, yeah. With the dull nomor Midwesterners who prefer American, I thought it was a bridge too far. [Kara] Now, Ric, do you need to be disgruntled to create? [Ric] You know, I'm more of a of a support musician, you know, I I've tried the songwriting thing, and I've come up with a few, but they're way too much work for me. [Kara] Okay, so. [Ric] They don't just flow, like, like, Paul's got that spark. [Kara] Yeah. [Ric] Yeah. [Paul] But the guy, he stays a lot busier than I do, as and, you know, my problem is, look, anyone that's listening, if you can replace my lost trucking wages and my travel and lodging, I'm there, okay? I'm there. I don't care if it's Australia. Um, but, you know, Rick probably does 100 gigs a year, and I probably do 12. [Kara] Okay. [Paul] How many gigs a year do you do? [Ric] Yeah, we might do 40. [Paul] 40? Ok. [Ric] Something like that. [Kara] Well, are you going to play anywhere, locally this summer? [Paul] So glad you asked that. Because we're going back to the epicenter of real Indiana, a place called Farmland. Farmland, Indiana. [Kara] Nice. [Paul] The Farmland Community Center, which is a beautiful, quaint little place overstuffed chairs and bathrooms within 20 feet. And, uh. Uh, and they used to give away free cobbler. [Kara] So your CD will be released. It's the party for it. [Paul] Well, my CD has already been released. [Kara] Okay. [Paul] I'm I'm continuing to celebrate the release of that months out. So and then we will have the Farmers' Pike Festival the Saturday before Labor Day. And you thank you for supporting. You were there last time. That's another quintessential Indiana event. [Kara] Now, okay, so we'd like for you to play another song for us, and who would like to talk about it? [Ric] Paul wrote it. [Kara] Okay. Paul wrote it. Let's hear about it. [Paul] Well, I was approached by a gentleman from Indiana to he said, "Man, can you write a song about my life?" And I'm like, "Oh. I don't like to do that." Um, Denise's sister Daphne once commissioned me to write a song about her life. And, like, it takes several interviews to do it right, and, you know, she would get to a sad part of her life and just shut down. So I had this half-written song, and, I couldn't finish it. Then I read Mark Twain's autobiography, and he said, "When commissioned to do a biographical work, the subject will only tell you so much about themselves, and it's up to you to embellish the rest." So I finished the song, and she hated it. She commissioned the song, then hated it. I love the song. But she was very angry. She said, "Paul, I never was in a drug shootout. I never stole a car. I never was the proprietor of Meth lab." And she loathes the song. And, And so I got away from commissioned song like commission biographical songs, you're just. [Kara] That's tough. [Paul] You're walk so I said, I don't I don't like to do that. And I think I told him that story. I said, but what you got? And he says, "Uh Well, my daddy was a bull hauler. And my mama, well, since this is a family station, his mother was from a much older profession than truck driving." And they met in the parking lot of the Union 76 truck stop in Amarillo, Texas. And I said, "I can write that song." And so, here's how it came out. Do you want to start us off? [Ric] Sure. ♪♪ I was made in the back of ♪♪ an old snub-nosed mac in the summer of '75. ♪♪ By an old cow pot. ♪♪ And a girl from the lot, ♪♪ she was scuffling just to stay alive. ♪♪ She'd been beaten, broke down in that hard Texas town, ♪♪ Lord she'd fallen into a terrible fix. ♪♪ Daddy said, "Let's get you on out of here, girl." ♪♪ I come along in '76. ♪♪ Then times was good, ♪♪ and life was calm and God was smiling down on the Earth. ♪♪ Daddy found a cherry red 359. ♪♪ I'd been built in the of my birth. ♪♪ It had a 1693 caterpillar motor, ♪♪ with a 15 double-over against the dash. ♪♪ Daddy took a sack from that wore-out mac. ♪♪ Then he paid it off in cash. ♪♪ Life on the road, ♪♪ I run 1,000 loads with that old man when I was young. ♪♪ The highway has ♪♪ its own hot cool and he hammered it into his son. ♪♪ Then God took him from the light. ♪♪ In twenty-o-nine, ♪♪ I still think of the things that he said. ♪♪ Don't tell me that the best days are over now. ♪♪ And the good hands are all gone and dead. ♪♪ Well, we had a little spread by ♪♪ the old creek bed in the green state of Tennessee. ♪♪ A little piece of land near my my pappies and my nans. ♪♪ It was Mama. It was Daddy and me. ♪♪ Every week or two he'd come off ♪♪ his cold cow ride he'd take me down to the old Pay Pong. ♪♪ One day in early spring, ♪♪ five Bluegill on the string. ♪♪ We'd come home and Mama was gone. ♪♪ Well, I looked in Daddy's eyes, ♪♪ and he showed no real surprise. ♪♪ He just gathered all my dirty clothes. ♪♪ Next day, we slammed the chute, ♪♪ and we loaded for Dubuque. ♪♪ That's the way this old story goes. ♪♪ Now, my father, he is not. ♪♪ And that lady from the lot, ♪♪ my mama, I will see no more. ♪♪ But there's just one life we've got. ♪♪ Don't weep for what you're not. ♪♪ Y'all take that from the son of a. ♪♪ Life on the road ♪♪ I run 1,000 loads. ♪♪ With that old man when I was young. ♪♪ The highway has its own hot coal. ♪♪ And he hammered it in to his son. ♪♪ God took him from an in twenty-o-nine. ♪♪ I still think of the things you said. ♪♪ Don't tell me the best days now. ♪♪ And the good hands are all gone and dead. ♪♪ Oh take us out, Rick. [Kara] Thank you so much for sharing with us. [Paul] Thanks for having us. [Kara] Of course. [Ric] Thank you, Kara. [Kara] Yeah. [Ric] So good to see you. [Kara] You too. I'm just sitting here soaking up the magic, and I'm feeling weepy, but, you know, it was a life path you just sang about. Like, so. [Paul] Yeah, I mean, the thing is, when somebody gives you, so my big heroes, my father he read Studs Turkle to me. He read Red Robert's Service. And I mean, I can't control the trajectory of that narrative. That was that man's story, and it's kind of like Why isn't that a little hard on the mom? You know? Well, that was a dude's story, you know? [Kara] Yeah. [Paul] And, but I want to say this, and I don't want to leave this out. So from that time in 1981, when I sang Rick all my songs, It wasn't for another 30 years that I ever until I performed publicly. And it was about 16 years ago. I was watching Austin City Limits at your sister station WIPB, and I saw Guy Clark perform, and what a master he was. But he said everything I learned from the structure of a song, was by listening to my father read Roberts' Service, who was the bard of the Yukon. And my father had read Roberts' Service to me. And I thought, "Well, that's how I structure my songs." And, and he goes, "I don't just write these songs to sit alone in a room and play them to myself." And something very primal rose up in me, something maybe infantile, like, Well, you SOB, my dad's as good as you. Your dad. And Ric, to his everlasting credit, had been inviting me over and over again to join him on the stage at the Wilson Winery where he was the in-house band. And so that's kind of how all this started was by Ric, my mentor and teacher, your teacher, coaxing me up on stage, and the reaction we got that first night was so overwhelmingly positive, although it was a small crowd, but I couldn't sleep for two nights. It was like, then I was hooked. I was bitten by the bug, like, Oh, so people, you can tell something about something you wrote, something within you that connects with people, and they connect back to you. Because trucking is a very solitary life. [Kara] Mmm. [Paul] So I went from being a very social person to living this solitary life as a trucker, and that re-awoke- [Ric] Re-awakened. [Paul] Thank you. See, again. Still teaching. [Ric] It's still in there, [Paul] Reawakened that thing in me that wanted to connect with people because I'd become very insular. And so here we are. [kara] Well, where do you feel like you are in your career, then, you know? You still writing? [Paul] Well, you know, it's a funny thing because Mississippi John Hurt. He farmed till he could no longer farm, and then he went out and played music. There's some trophy gigs I would love to play that I just can't play right now because you can't tell knuckleheads in Kansas City, "Hey, as long as you're willing to replace my driver's wages, I'm gonna lose a week's wages to come out there and play for you." Um, so I'm hoping to build some micro tours. I'm hoping like if you get Michael Ronstadt that's one of my collaborators, and Ric has collaborated with Michael, as well. Linda Ronstadt's nephew, and he's a great guy goes, "Get the anchor gig and then try to build the smaller events that may not pay as well on your way out." And so I think that's what we're going to try to do next. And then I'm going to try to swim more, try to go to The Y more, try to walk more. Trucking has not been great for my health. I'm carrying too much weight, and, um, and, uh, you know, I want to be around to see my grandkids a little bit longer. [Kara] Well, we want that, too. Thank you so much for being here. [Paul] Thanks for having us, Kara, as always. [kara] Yeah. [Michelle] You're listening to Pop of Culture. I'm Michelle Kinsey. [Kara] I'm Kara DuQuette. [Jen Blackmer] And I'm Jen Blackmer. And I am pleased to be joined by a guest we haven't heard from in a little bit. Welcome back to Pop of Culture Hannah Bradshaw. Hi, Hannah. [Hannah Bradshaw] Hey, hi. [Jen] Hannah is the official president of our Pop of Culture Book Club, and Hannah is here to chat with me about Summer reads. And, you know, we often hear that Summer reads are beach reads. And I am unfortunately not gonna get to go to a beach this summer. So do summer reads have to be beach reads, Hannah? [Hannah] No, they do not. I actually came prepared, 'cause I also will not be going to a beach this summer, sadly. [Jen] Yeah, I know. [Hannah] But maybe in my backyard, little pop up pool or something. [Jen] Oh, that's okay. I was saying my water experience will be the White River, probably. So [Hannah] Maybe my garden hose. I go. [Jen] Alright. [Hannah] But no, I did bring, you know, a list of books that will give you that vibe that are not just about the beach, because some people just don't like the beach. But all of these will definitely give you, like, that travel during the summer vibe. [Jen] Awesome. So what do we have to look forward to? [Hannah] Okay, I have been doing a lot of research because I have had a lot of time lately to read. So the first one that I'm looking forward to and a lot of people are is called "Villa Coco," and it's by Andrew Sean Greer. And I guess he's a Pulitzer Prize winner, which I didn't know until recently, So that's kind of exciting. [Jen] Great. [Kahnnah] But this one is going to take you to the Tuscan era of Italy. [Jen] Oh. Yes, please. [Hannah]Yes. Yes. It's like Italian countryside. But basically, you know, it has, like, coming-of-age vibes. It's a love story. It has some comedy mixed in and blending wit with deep emotion, but it comes out in later June. It's about a young American archivist who takes a job at a crumbling villa in Tuscany. And he's actually going to be assisting a 92-year-old Baroness cataloguing her estate and helping her find a lost love. But the funny thing is, like, there's chaotic guests that come to stay. There's local oddities, and I just think it sounds so perfect. [Jen] That sounds so fun. [Hannah] It does. So I'm really looking forward to that one, and I've been seeing a lot of hype around that one. So again, that's "Villa Coco" by Andrew Sean Greer, so that's one I have on my list. Another one that I'm super, super pumped about. Matt Haig is now releasing "The Midnight Train." So I don't know if you're familiar with "The Midnight Library" that came out. [Jen] Yes, oh, yes. [Hannah] A few years ago. [Jen] Absolutely. [Hannah] So it's back. It's not a sequel. It's a companion to "The Midnight Library," which makes it a little interesting 'cause you see so many sequels. But instead of a library, it's a magical train now. [Jen] I love that. [Hannah] That he gets to board and revisit the key moments in his life. And I'm just really excited. I love that story. [Jen] I did too. [Hannah] I think this one will take us back to that vibe in his writing style but on a train. [Jen] And I love the idea of a companion, right? So it's all the good stuff from the original, but then you have a new story with new characters, new ingredients. That's great. [Hannah] Yeah, exactly. So set in the same world, but just a different character. Another one, because this takes me back to last year. It's called "The Shippers" by Katherine Center. It's a romantic comedy, but it's about girls, like, sisters destination wedding on a cruise ship. [Jen] A. And I'm so glad you brought this up because I actually read a preview of this book, and it's on my list, as well. [Hannah] Oh, my gosh. Yes. It sounds great. And I am a sucker for friends to lovers trope. So give me that a cruise ship, and I can just, you know, be absorbed by the pages. Great. [Jen] And that sounds great for a summer read, right? You're looking for something that's not Hardcore stressy kind of thing. That's great. [Hannah] No. There's so much of that in our normal life, so no. [Jen] Yes, exactly. [Hannah] My other one that I'm really excited for is called "Safari Murder Party." [Jen] Wow. Let me guess what it's about. [Hannah] Yes. Yes, yes, yes. So it's dark comedy thriller. So it's a corporate retreat on a private island that turns deadly when the CEO dies, and his will reveals that the last survivor will inherit his company. So so all coworkers are against each other. They're teaming up against their murderous coworkers. And then, of course, the wild animals in the safari. [Jen] Of course. Oh, it's got a ton of different ingredients. So one of my favorite books growing up was called "The Westing Game" by Ellen Raskin. It sounds similar, right, that you've got all of these ingredients for this really cool mystery. It sounds crazy, and I'm so here for it. [Hannah] Yeah. What I've been seeing people describe it as is, Like, a mix of "The Devil Wears Prada" and "Jumanji." And then the horror film "Ready or Not." If you've seen that, it's kind of like a cat and mouse chase. I just think it's gonna be fun to read this summer. So if you want to go on, like, an African Safari, that one's for you. [Jen] Excellent. [Hannah] And then, you know, me, I had to bring some horror to this conversation, always. So there is one that's coming out that I'm really excited about that is more like sleep-away camp during the summer thriller. It's called "Summers Never Over" by Darby Bozeman. [Jen] Oh, wow. [Hannah] Yeah. I am so excited, and the cover's pretty great 'cause they're like, like, teenagers, you know, getting into the water kind of thing. But it's a dual timeline thriller about a character named Greer who returns to her family's Georgia summer camp, five years after a friend's mysterious death and a fire, only to confront old flame secrets and a lingering suspicion that the death was not an accident. [Jen] Of course. [Hannah] It blends your summer camp, nostalgia, but with suspense and some themes of friendship, hidden truth, all the good things for me in a thriller. And I don't know. I'm a sucker for, like, the camp horror, campy horror. All of that. So yeah, I'm excited about that one. The other one that's horror that I'm excited about for the summer is called "Make Me Better" by Sarah Gailey. And it's a secluded island thing, too. That must just be the vibe for me for the summer or something. And for the publishers. [Jen] Yeah, well, and different kinds of beach reads, right? So not necessarily the sandy beach, but more the scary beach. [Hannah] Yes. And, you know, there's tons. Every time I come, it's so hard to just pick a few because there's so many good releases, and, like, for a lot of people and myself included, I think, Summer read, it's always a beach read. So I've been trying to go outside of that, even working at the library just to, like, help people. So yeah, it's great. I'm excited. So, "Make Me Better" is more folk and it follows Celia, a grieving, lonely woman who joins the secluded island community of Kindred Cove for their Salt Festival. But the islands like promising transformation and escape from suffering, but slowly reveals itself to be like a high-control sinister cult on the island. So. [Jen] Cult stories are [Hannah] Cultish. [Jen] Fascinating. [Hannah] It is. And it kind of Like when I read the description, I don't know if you've seen the movie "Midsommar, " that came out like, years ago. It kind of gave me that vibe, but I was like, Okay. I'll read that. So, yeah, that's coming out, too. Um I have two more. There is Okay, so it's called "Find Romance Par Avion." I don't know if I'm saying that last part, right? [Jen] Yeah, like, par avion like flying? [Hannah] Yeah. Yes, yes, by airmail. [Jen] Yeah. [Hannah] So it's like a meet-cute kind of book, but on an airplane. People are traveling for love. So basically, it's referring to, like, the classic allure of in flight connections and timeless handwritten correspondence. It kind of is like forced proximity. It gives, like, supposedly, there's more of, you know, like, friends to lovers trope kind of thing. But it's supposed to be pretty good from what I'm seeing so far. I don't read that many about, like, airport or airplane romance novels. [Jen] Yeah. [Hannah] So that one will be interesting, I think. And then the other one, I've just been seeing a lot of hype around over the last month, and so they're talking about it being big for the summer. It's called "This Story Might Save Your Life," and it's by Tiffany Crum. The audiobook just came out. So people are talking about how good that is, too. So, if audiobooks you're saying, this might be a good, audio option. I actually released in March, but, like, over the last few months, it's just gained a lot of traction. And it blends mystery, suspense and romance, and it's centered around hosts of a popular survival podcast who end up disappearing Um, one of them do. The other one is left to solve the mystery while also being the prime suspect of the crime. [Jen] Ah. Okay. [Hannah] I thought that was kind of interesting. And I think by this summer, like, it's really gonna everyone's gonna be talking about it. So, there is some interesting things. So far, it's been described as gripping and page turning. Kind of has some comparisons to "Gone Girl." [Jen] Mm hm. [Hannah] So I think that one's gonna be really popular this summer, and I want to read it, too. [Jen] Oh, wow. So there is just so much. And it's so exciting. We've got mystery and suspense. We've got romance. We've got travel. What more do you want for your summer? [Hannah] Yeah. Right. And yeah, and there are beach reads, so all you need to do is if you really want the beach thing,. [Jen] Take one of those. Yeah, take one of these at the beach. [Hannah] Yeah. Take it on the beach, you know, whatever, but no, there's so many good books this summer. It's really hard to choose. But those ones I definitely were like, I have to read these. [Jen] Of course. Well, Hannah, your recommendations are so excellent always, and we're just so happy you could join us again for the Pop of Culture Book Club, and Hannah Bradshaw is the incoming Youth Services Manager at Anderson Public Library and the official president of the Pop of Culture Book Club. Thank you so much, Hannah, for your time. [Hannah] Thank you. [Jen] And my list my reading list just got a whole lot longer. [Hannah] Whoo. [Kara] I'm Kara DuQuette. [Michelle] And I'm Michelle Kinsey. This is Pop of Culture. Joining me is Laura Williamson, Executive Artistic Director at Muncy Civic Theater. And, Laura, I do realize this is loaded and could take several hours. But this is the part of Pop of Culture where we ask, " What are you working on?" [Laura] Oh, my goodness. Oh. Oh. Just a few things. Just a couple of things. Well, currently, "Frozen" is live on the Main Stage Theater, and it's really exciting. [Michelle] Really big right out of the gate. [Laura] Really big. [Michelle] You're going big. [Laura] Really big. Yes. I was the Director of the show and had an amazing time had an amazing time working on this. It's a new show to me. It's been recently released to theaters, our size. So the junior version, we produced that a few years ago, and that's been available to theaters and to schools, mostly. But this is just this year. Was it, you know, available for us, so. [Michelle] That's a big deal. [Laura] It's a really big deal. Right. [Michelle] So there may be two people, and I'm exaggerating there, that may not know what "Frozen" is. [Laura] You know, it's funny you say that because the amount of people that have said, "You know, I've never seen this one," And it catches me. But I refrain from saying, "How?" You know? [Michelle] How did you avoid it? [Laura] You know. But it's true. They have, you know, a lack of children, perhaps, you know, at a certain age. But yes, for those of us that had children at that time, it was impossible to avoid. [Michelle] Yes. So give us a little synopsis of what "Frozen" is about. What story does it tell? Well, it's based on loosely based on a Hans Christian Andersen fairy tale, "The Snow Queen," very loosely based. He's also famous for "The Little Mermaid" and also the "Ugly Duckling." And it is Elsa and Anna. What's lovely about it is that I think it's one of the first Disney musicals where it's two women that are the heroines. And, you know, finally, the reward is not that she gets to get married, you know, which is pretty great. [Michelle] Yeah. Yeah. So you mentioned you had a wonderful time. [Laura] I did. [Michelle] Putting this show together? What were some of the highlights? What is it that makes this musical stand out to you and the production of it for Civic? [Laura] Well, so in the Disney movie that, you know, many have seen, every song is great, but when they go to produce it on Broadway, they have to add, you know, at least six more songs to make it a full-length musical. And there's kind of a formula for that. It's like every I don't know, four pages in the script, there's got to be a major song or duet or something. And every one of the songs is fantastic, the new songs. [Michelle] I'm really excited new songs. [Laura] They're really great. Actually, my favorite moments in the show are from the newer songs. [Michelle] Wow. [Laura] Yeah. [Michelle] That's awesome. And I understand that you have a lot of actors, performers in this musical that we've seen before. If you've been to the youth performances, right? [Laura] Oh, my goodness. [Michelle] You literally have. [Laura] Yes. [Michelle] Children growing up at Muncie Civic Theatre. [Laura] It's really It's very sweet. There's at least 15 now young adults that were kids, and many of them were in the junior production that we did in 2019. And it is a younger cast with a few adults in it as well. I mean, I should say that give a shout out to our Elsa, which is Brittany Kern. She is an amazing surgeon here in Muncie. [Michelle] And I think people need to understand that Civic. Community Theater. These are all people. [Laura] That's right. [Michelle] For the love of the theater, the love of the shows. [Laura] That's right. [Michelle] They're putting hours and hours and hours into this, right? [Laura] Right. [Michelle] Which is wonderful. [Laura] It is. And it's that I think that when I look at the cross-section of people in any show, it is the widest variety of ages, professions, just places in life, diversity of all kinds. That's something that we're very proud of. [Michelle] Well, I know you're very proud of this year's season 26-27 season. "Frozen" is kicking it off, like I said it from jump. Big, in a big, big, big way. Tell us about the rest of the season. [Laura] So creative, wonder awaits. Join us, Michelle, and Luke. Join us on a trip extraordinaire with get your passport. If you attend every mainstage show, you get a stamp in your passport. [Michelle] Love that. [Laura] Especially if you also attend the shows in the studio, we have stamps for those as well. So it's kind of fun. Right. [Michelle] So what are some of the other shows we can look forward to in the season? [Laura] So we have "Charlie and the Chocolate Factory." "The Producers." [Michelle] I mean. [Laura] I know. "It's A Wonderful Life," "Les Misérables, " and "The Little Mermaid." I know. [Michelle] Did you just decide, did the committee decide before selecting these shows that you were just like, "We are gonna hit it so far out of the park." [Laura] Oh. I mean. [Michelle] I mean, this is huge. [Laura] It is a big season. It really is. But we're very excited. [Michelle] Yeah. [Laura] Yeah. [Michelle] What show Well, other than "Frozen" 'cause I know you were personally attached to the show as the director. [Laura] Yes. [Michelle] What show are you looking forward to maybe that you haven't seen at Civic, either ever or in a long time? [Laura] So this version of "Charlie and the Chocolate Factory," which opens in August is a rewrite. So it is the same basic story of, you know, Willie Wonka and has the same characters, but there's some updated twists, which is really nice when the producers and the writers of these shows kind of update them with, you know, just a little correctness and a little more with an eye for a more modern audience. So this is the updated, newer version of Charlie. And then for us, similarly to how "Frozen" has only been available just this year, "Les Misérables" which is our April show of '27, this is the first year that that is available for theaters ourselves. So it really just because it's been on tour since it opened. [Michelle] Absolutely. [Laura] In the 1980s. I know I know. Right. [Michelle] For a minute. It's been out there for a minute. [Laura] Yeah, right. Right. [Michelle] And that is just mainstage. [Laura] Mm hmm. That's right. [Michelle] And I know you have a show opening very, very soon in the Casasa. [Laura] Yes. [Michelle] Theater. [Laura] Yes, yeah. This is a lot of fun. So, yes, this opens on Friday, and it runs for two weekends. It's called "The Taming, " and it is about a beauty queen, a conservative politician, and a liberal blogger, all three women that mysteriously find themselves locked in a hotel room, and they are charged with rewriting the US Constitution. [Michelle] Wow. [Laura] So it. Yeah, it is laugh-out-loud. It is. [Michelle] Yeah. That sounds very interesting. Yeah and I have not seen that show. So that is going to be. And that is when when did that open again? [Laura] It opens Friday, June 12, and it runs the 12th, 13th and 14th, and then it is open the following weekend, as well. [Michelle] Awesome. Anything else that is currently happening at the theater? I know you've got a lot. There are some renovations. [Laura] Oh, my goodness. [Michelle] Happening right now, right? [Laura] Oh, my goodness. We have newly renovated first-floor restrooms. And so when we did the major renovations in 17-18, we went from having two stalls in the women's bathroom to five, and that felt like a really, really big deal. [Michelle] Oh, magical. [Laura] Now. [Michelle] Transformational. [Laura] I mean, we doubled, right? More than doubled. But then, over the years, you know, our intermissions are still long, and the lines are long, and it gets caught up in the concessions. And so, you know, so for about three years, we've been working on this: what would it mean to expand? So new green room, dressing rooms, women's restrooms, and men's restrooms. So it really is a whole section of our first floor being completely remodeled. And there are like we have now also doubled the size of the women's the amount of the women's restroom stalls. So we're very happy about that. [Michelle] Yeah. Yeah. Can you hear that? That is a collective cheer. From all the women listening right now. [Laura] That's right. That's right. [Michelle] Laura, how long have you been at Muncie Civic? [Laura] Ten years. [Michelle] Ten years. [Laura] Yes. [Michelle] So you have seen a lot of exciting things. [Laura] I have. [Michelle] Happen at Muncie Civic Theater. What has been the best part of your job? [Laura] Oh. Um, performing with my family. [Michelle] Mm. [Laura] Getting to share the stage and getting to look at posters on the wall as a shared experiences. Yeah. [Michelle] Yeah. And Pip has often, your son, Pip has been in the pit several times. [Laura] Oh, my goodness. [Michelle] On stage several times. [Laura] Yes, yes. He's actually playing Olaf. [Michelle] And your daughter. [Laura] And she's dancing as well. [Michelle] Yeah. I mean, that has to be. [Laura] It is. [Michelle] Such an amazing feeling to be able to do that as a family. [Laura] Yes, it's lovely. Everything. Yes. [Michelle] So I know the last ten years has. been very exciting for you. What are you looking forward to the most in the next decade? [Laura] I used to say, back when we were doing the renovations and raising money, you know, which we weren't sure we could do. None of us around the table, had ever been a part of a capital campaign or a building project. We even imagined maybe we could sell the building, and someone else would do this, and we would be the renter. You know? It seemed overwhelming. [Michelle] Sure. [Laura] But now, on the other side of that and receiving the support of the community and especially local foundations, we do feel that we are important, you know, important to Downtown. And I think that as Downtown continues to redefine itself, and as Muncie continues to redefine itself, you know, as Next Muncie answers, "What is next for Muncie?" I think that that's part of our conversation, as well. You know, that we would like to be a major arts center, you know, for this part of the state. [Michelle] Mm hmm. Can you briefly tell listeners what Next Muncie is, they may not be familiar with that? [Laura] It is all of the stakeholders, from the mayor, from President Mearns at Ball State, financial stakeholders, [Michelle] Hospitals. [Laura] Yes, the hospital, arts and culture that really are asking the questions. "How do we retain the students that come to Muncie to go to the university, but also how do we retain workers and attract people that are working in Muncy, but not just to have them commute, you know, from Fort Wayne or Indianapolis, but to make their home here?" So what do we have to do to be an attractive community? [Michelle] Absolutely. Pride of place, right? That's sense place. Laura, thank you so much. [Laura] Sure. [Michelle] For being here. And before we go, tell them where they can get more information about Muncie Civic. [Laura] You can go to munciecivic.org or call 288-PLAY. And I should also mention that we have summer camp opportunities coming up "Shrek Junior." [Michelle] See, I told you. There's just too much too much to this program. [Laura] And a technical theater camp, starting June 15. [Michelle] Wow. A lot going on at Muncie Civic Theater. Laura, we'll let you go so you can get. [Laura] Alright. Alright. [Michelle] You've got a lot on your plate. Thanks so much. [Laura] Thank you, Michelle. [Michelle] Kara, it's that time. [Kara] Okay, it sounds good. [Michelle] Let's check out the arts and culture and all the other things happening all over our listening area. Hungry for knowledge? History Bites: Stories of the White River at Muncie Town is 6-8 P.M. Friday, June 12 at Minnetrista Museum and Gardens. Join Chris Fluke, local historian, author, and senior lecturer in the Department of Media at Ball State University for a journey along the White River through Muncie's Past. Registration is strongly preferred. Limited walk-in tickets may be available. Minnetrista.net is the place to go for more info. [Kara] Check out Muncie Town. [Michelle] Yeah. [Kara] Cook and Bell will perform at the Yorktown Free Summer Concert Series, Friday, June 12, at the Civic Green. The music begins at 7:30 P.M. [Michelle] The Alexandria Band Fest kicks off at 9:00 A.M. Saturday, June 13 at Beulah Park in Alexandria. Five community bands will perform. Then they will combine for a big performance at noon. Bands are the Tipton Community Band, Horizon Community Band, Indianapolis Municipal Band, Zionsville Concert Band, and Alexandria Community Band. That's a lot of band. [Kara] Oh, yeah. Comedian Scott Long will perform Saturday at Daleville Town Hall Park as a part of the Summer oncert seSries at Daleville Parks. The show is family friendly, and the laughs will begin at 7:00 P.M. [Michelle] The E.B. and Bertha C. Ball Center is offering A Taste of Poetry from 6-7:30 P.M. Wednesday, June 17, at the center. The evening will feature the work of Lylanne Musselman, writing instructor at the Center, and a selection of readings by a few of her students. A reception will follow. Reservations are recommended bsu.edu/ebball. [Kara] America's Hometown Band will present solos in the night on June 18 at Westside Park in Muncie. Bring your lawn chair or a blanket for this concert, which will begin at 7:30 P.M. [Michelle] A Taste of Ireland, the Irish music and dance sensation will be getting jiggy with it at Cornerstone Center for the Arts on June 19. This direct from Off-Broadway show stars former World Irish dance champions, including performers from Lord of the Dance and River Dance. You can't see it, but I am tapping my toes underneath a desk right now. The performance begins at 7:30 P.M. Ticket info at cornerstonearts.org. [Kara] Send us your arts and cultural happenings, indianapublicradio.org/contact and then click Pop of Culture. [Luke] Support for Pop of Culture comes from Stallings Wealth Management and from you. You may have heard about large gifts to NPR. Those donations are important, but they don't bring back the funding to IPR. Your support pays for the programs you rely on, especially local programs like this one, and the people like me who create them. Pop of culture exists for you and because of you. Give today at Indiana public radio.org. [Kara] And that's our show. Our interim general manager and executive producer is Angie Grimes. [Michelle] This week was produced by Luke Jones and Sean Ashcraft, the former of whom is very thankful for the latter. [Kara] We had production assistance from Andrew Montavon and Stephanie Weichmann. [Michelle] Our show was hosted by me, Michelle Kinsey,. [Kara] And me Kara DuQuette. Pop of Culture is a production from IPR on the hot campus of Ball State University. [Michelle] Hot! I love the way that came that was great. [Kara] Hot! [Michelle] Hot! [Stephanie Weichmann] I'm gonna hit record. Awesome. It is. Supposedly recording. Here we go. It is recording. Excellent. Okay. [Michelle] We got this. [Stephanie] I've been a producer for 20 years. [Michelle] You got this. Who runs the world? Girls! That's right.