00;00;00;11 - 00;00;25;01 J.R. Jamison Jamison: 2020 is a year that never was, but also the year they had it all. It was a year chocked full of canceled plans and sheltering at home due to the global pandemic. It was also a year of turmoil that included fires, floods, protests, murder hornets and the most contentious presidential election of our lifetime. With so much unrest and concern about the future, it's easy to overlook the good that's happened in the world this past year. 00;00;25;03 - 00;00;26;10 J.R. Jamison I'm J.R. Jamison. 00;00;26;14 - 00;00;39;00 Kelsey Timmerman Timmerman: And I'm Kelsey Timmerman. Today on the Facing Project, we'll take a look back at 2020 and share our favorite stories and moments from the show. [Theme music] 00;00;39;02 - 00;00;58;15 J.R. Jamison Jamison: The other day, I was chatting virtually with a friend and she asked me what I miss most about my pre-pandemic life, and I said, driving. And the thing is, I can't believe I even said that because I've complained on the regular for the past 15 years about my three hour a day commute. 00;00;58;17 - 00;01;07;16 Kelsey Timmerman Timmerman: Yeah. I mean, you always talk about having road rage, or if you're not driving, you get carsick. So I'm really surprised to hear you say that. 00;01;07;18 - 00;01;26;26 J.R. Jamison Jamison: I know, but, you know. So the thing is, it's not so much that I miss driving. I guess it's more about having a destination, and I, I realized that the other day when I was driving around town, because I still do that about once a week, just to make sure that the battery and my engine stays active and all these things I didn't even know you needed to do for a car. [Laughing] 00;01;27;01 - 00;01;32;03 Kelsey Timmerman Timmerman: Do you? Is that like, is that mechanically sound? Like I'm not. I don't know if I trust you. 00;01;32;06 - 00;01;52;10 J.R. Jamison Jamison: I don't know. Corey, Corey tells me all the time, you're need, you need to make sure you go drive your car so that it stays in good, healthy condition. So, I don't know, I just, I just listen and I just hop in and I drive around. But the thing is, as I've been driving around, I longingly look out the window and some of my past haunts and memories that we've made around this town. 00;01;52;12 - 00;01;56;00 J.R. Jamison And then I just turn around and I come right back home and, 00;01;56;00 - 00;01;56;10 Kelsey Timmerman Timmerman: That’s sad. 00;01;56;15 - 00;02;20;07 J.R. Jamison Jamison: I know it is. And I really miss the in-person human interaction. And I do fear so much that the sheltering in place for the past nine months will make me permanently socially awkward. Not that I wasn't already socially awkward enough, but I feel like, I mean, at this point, my dog is my best friend, and I don't even mean that figuratively. 00;02;20;09 - 00;02;22;21 Kelsey Timmerman Timmerman: [Laughing] Yeah, yeah, I miss touching people. 00;02;22;23 - 00;02;23;27 J.R. Jamison Jamison: Oh, okay. [Laughing] 00;02;23;27 - 00;02;31;24 Kelsey Timmerman Timmerman: Wait, wait. [Laughing] I should be more specific. Like, I miss hugging like friends and family, appropriately, J.R. 00;02;31;26 - 00;02;32;26 J.R. Jamison Jamison: Yeah. 00;02;32;28 - 00;02;46;22 Kelsey Timmerman Timmerman: I mean, this spring, when the pandemic first hit, I went months without hugging my mom. And when we opened our bubble the summer to include her, and I finally hugged her, and it wasn't like I even knew I missed, like, hugging my mom. 00;02;46;22 - 00;02;47;03 J.R. Jamison Jamison: Yeah. 00;02;47;03 - 00;02;56;29 Kelsey Timmerman Timmerman: But when I did, I got teary eyed. And I miss bumping into people and shaking their hands, catching up and making plans, like, it had been too long, 00;02;56;29 - 00;03;09;15 Kelsey Timmerman so let's get together for lunch or whatever. Well, now for sure it has been too long. So a little side note, J.R., do you remember that one time we hugged? 00;03;09;18 - 00;03;15;16 J.R. Jamison Jamison: Yes, I do. You mean the one time that you forced me to hug you? 00;03;15;17 - 00;03;17;04 Kelsey Timmerman Timmerman: This sounds, this sounds like an attack. 00;03;17;05 - 00;03;33;26 J.R. Jamison Jamison: ...On a street corner under only the lights of street lamps? [Laughs] Which I know that makes it sound even stranger. But yes, I have tried to block that awkward moment from my mind. And I think you told me afterward that hugging me was like hugging a fish. [Laughing] 00;03;33;29 - 00;03;53;19 Kelsey Timmerman Timmerman: Yeah. Never. Never again. So for some context, we had just completed the Facing Autism Project. Especially for me, it was a emotional evening. It was, you know, the first Facing Project that we put together, like, just, you know, the two, the two of us, and we organized in our own community. It was a really powerful moment. 00;03;53;19 - 00;04;17;06 Kelsey Timmerman We had, like, an after party. And then I was saying goodbye and I'm like, that was a really cool moment. I'm going to give J.R. a hug. And then it was complete, like, dead fish. [Laughter] So anyhow, this episode is a hug for all those who shared stories and for all those who listened. And by hug I mean a Kelsey hug and not a J.R. hug. 00;04;17;13 - 00;04;21;04 J.R. Jamison Jamison: Hey, now, I don't think that is totally fair. 00;04;21;07 - 00;04;23;10 Kelsey Timmerman Timmerman: Worst hugger ever. 00;04;23;13 - 00;04;40;10 J.R. Jamison Jamison: [Laughter] But when I think about our show and the stories we've shared and the people we've met over this past year, even those we've only met virtually, I'm reminded of the human condition that still connects us all, and that gives me hope. And that's as good of a hug as any for me. 00;04;40;12 - 00;05;01;15 J.R. Jamison So when I look back at our past year, one of my favorite moments is when we sat down with Will Grinstead. Will is a pastor, and he served as a storyteller on a Facing LGBTQ Project, and in that story, he shared how he once held anti-LGBTQ views. But that changed after he had to stand in for a chaplain and give last rites to a dying woman whose wife sat at her bedside. 00;05;01;17 - 00;05;20;19 J.R. Jamison The interaction we'll had with this woman in the final moments of her wife's life made him begin to question what he was taught about relationships and marriage. He is now an affirming pastor, and we invited him on the show for a chat. And that was included in episode six of season two: “Faith, Identity and Life Changing Chance Encounters.” 00;05;20;22 - 00;05;23;13 J.R. Jamison Jamison: We want to welcome the storyteller Will Grinstead to the show. 00;05;23;16 - 00;05;24;07 Will Grinstead Grinstead: Thanks for having me. 00;05;24;08 - 00;05;39;07 Kelsey Timmerman Timmerman: And thanks for joining us, Will. So in some ways, this story is about a moment you had an identity crisis, and I don't know how long ago this exactly was, but are you still, is there still an ongoing identity crisis or you feel good where you're at? 00;05;39;09 - 00;06;03;13 Will Grinstead Grinstead: So this happened back in 2014, when I was doing my clinical training for a hospital chaplaincy through a program called Clinical Pastoral Education. And I guess, the answer to both of your questions is yes. Yes, still an identity crisis. Although, I guess I've come to reframe that as that, that's kind of how life is, and that's, that's okay. 00;06;03;15 - 00;06;23;16 Will Grinstead Every day presents us with opportunities to grow and to change. And I think that's what life is supposed to be. So the journey since then has become, has been being okay with that ongoing kind of unfolding of identity that there's, there's something new to discover about ourselves every single day. 00;06;23;18 - 00;06;33;11 Kelsey Timmerman Timmerman: So that was a life changing moment, life changing experience. If you hadn't had it, do you think you would've been on a different path or you think you would eventually had it? 00;06;33;13 - 00;06;55;24 Will Grinstead Grinstead: Oh, boy. That's that's a tough philosophical question. I, how about this? I think that I needed to have it. There was already this, this stirring or this wondering in me about, okay, these are the things I heard about LGBTQ people growing up. But I knew that that didn't resonate with me. But at the same time, I didn't really know how to practice ministry, 00;06;56;00 - 00;07;17;03 Will Grinstead how to, how to serve that population authentically. You know, it was this, this kind of fumbling through. I didn't have a lot of good examples to look at. So, yeah, I needed this to happen. I do think that eventually I would have found my way to, to this kind of ministry. And the fact that it happened, when it did was, was really great. 00;07;17;05 - 00;07;37;13 Will Grinstead So chaplains go through clinicals, kind of similar to the way nurses go through clinicals, because you can't learn everything you need to know about nursing through a book. You really have to get out there and practice it and get your hands dirty. And so I had not just this experience that was transformative for me, but also a great supervisor and peer group to help me kind of process through this, 00;07;37;13 - 00;07;47;18 Will Grinstead and what was this going to look like for my ministry going forward, and how was I going to articulate who I am and why I do what I do in an authentic way. 00;07;47;20 - 00;08;07;03 Kelsey Timmerman Timmerman: What kind of lessons were you being preached at, like growing up in the in that tradition? And how could you- I was wondering like, how could you, like, sit there sometimes and what I maybe would perceive now as like messages of like, here's what you should kind of hate, a group of people or not like or accept that group of people? 00;08;07;05 - 00;08;30;19 Will Grinstead Grinstead: Yeah. I feel this like, I don't know, like a pressure in my chest, even kind of trying to think back to that time and, and talk about some of this. But, but yeah, it was- So I grew up in a very independent fundamentalist Baptist church. The message about LGBTQ folks or really just gay people was really to all the articulate, articulate language that you would use, 00;08;30;22 - 00;08;57;05 Will Grinstead was that those folks are flawed. They're mentally ill. Definitely going to hell. I mean, it's just language that it's hard for me to even repeat now, but that was very much the, the kind of language that I grew up in. And I think when we're kids or adolescents, you know, you, you take that at face value, you know, and this was a day before the internet, you know, we couldn't just look this stuff up. 00;08;57;07 - 00;09;26;10 Will Grinstead You know, you had limited sources of information. I grew up not only in a conservative church environment, but the school I attended was also associated with the church and very conservative. So kind of a very insular culture. But it's interesting to me kind of thinking back, really, as soon as I started stepping out of that, I started kind of questioning all of these different boundary lines that I'd been given as absolute and asking hard questions of them. 00;09;26;13 - 00;09;44;10 J.R. Jamison Jamison: Knowing what you know now and understanding how LGBTQ people have been pained or harmed by the church, what commits you to being a pastor still? 00;09;44;12 - 00;10;00;29 Will Grinstead Grinstead: Yeah, I know in radio it's kind of frowned upon to have that dead air space, but I just wonder if we could hold those words, LGBT, LGBTQ people pained by the church in silence for a minute. 00;10;01;02 - 00;10;25;03 Will Grinstead Because pain is a really is a really rich word. You know, we use that word pain to mean, you know, I'm, I poked myself in the arm with a pencil and a headache and kidney stones and emotional and spiritual pain as well. I think the kind of pain that I hear about from LGBTQ folks is pain that's inflicted upon someone. 00;10;25;06 - 00;10;57;02 Will Grinstead And so, it's not just pain that happens to kind of have come about, you know, through ordinary daily living. That's difficult enough for any of us as it is. But it's, it's spiritual abuse that's been given to these people, about who they are at the most fundamental level. And, my own personal belief is that, clergy, church folks have have a lot of answering to do for the messages that we have supported and not opposed over the years. 00;10;57;04 - 00;11;23;08 Will Grinstead So what keeps me committed to being a pastor? The work of healing that, and knowing that that work is not going to happen in a month or a year, it's going to happen probably over the span of my lifetime, and others, too, too, before will really get back to a place where we can preach true affirmation of people's deepest identity. 00;11;23;10 - 00;11;52;06 J.R. Jamison Jamison: Because so many people in the LGBTQ community have been pained like we just discussed. They're afraid of the church and afraid of clergy in some ways. Because of this, and I'm speaking from growing up Southern Baptist and, and so we connected a bit about this, there's this fear of being your authentic self in front of people who identify as people of faith. 00;11;52;09 - 00;12;13;01 J.R. Jamison So what can LGBTQ people do? I mean, what's this, this piece of, how do you, how do you, how do you reach, how do you reach us? How do you reassure us that you're not here to do harm or change us, that you really are here to affirm us? 00;12;13;02 - 00;12;44;00 Will Grinstead Grinstead: Yeah. Well, I think, I think there's a few, kind of, a few important points in what you said. The first thing I would say to, you know, my clergy colleagues is stop talking and start listening. Nobody's interested in our words about that anymore. That, that's been, that's done. It's over with. We don't need, I don't think, we don't need clergy to pretend as though, you know, we're counseling psychologists or biologists or other, other kinds of disciplines. 00;12;44;02 - 00;13;07;13 Will Grinstead We need people that are skilled at soul care. We need people that are skilled at working at the deepest level of who people are. And the way you do that is by listening to people. It's this, it's just a radical idea that we're going to listen to people's stories as they are. I mean, yeah, even the way you set up the question about the fear of being our authentic self in front of people of faith, it just, oh, it hurts to hear that. 00;13;07;13 - 00;13;40;08 Will Grinstead But I know that must be true. So that'd be the first thing I'd tell my clergy colleagues is to stop talking and start listening. And I would also say, just because you want to have an open and affirming church and you say that you're open and affirming, doesn't make it so. [Laughs] Right? You need to have a longer, kind of intentional conversation and work with some groups to make sure that what you're offering and what you what you think you're offering is actually what you're communicating. 00;13;40;08 - 00;13;58;04 Will Grinstead Because people, you know, make these quick assessments of our, our spaces and our, our presence as clergy or as lay folks in churches very quickly. So it's, it's important to get those things right if you really want to invite people into that space. 00;13;58;06 - 00;14;26;00 J.R. Jamison Jamison: What do you say to colleagues, perhaps, maybe, folks who you went through school with or perhaps it's people you know from, and I hate to use this word “past life,” but, in your past experiences of what you used to believe. I'm sure you still hear people say, “But! But the Scripture says this, and we can't get beyond that.” 00;14;26;01 - 00;14;48;13 J.R. Jamison How can you even have conversations, like, what's one way- We can't change minds overnight, right? Like, I mean, that just isn't possible. We know that's not true, but there is a chipping away process that can happen. And there are times when chance encounters, right? Or chance conversations can alter how you move forward. How do you begin conversations when people start with, 00;14;48;15 - 00;14;49;20 J.R. Jamison “But Scripture says?” 00;14;49;20 - 00;15;08;10 Will Grinstead Grinstead: Yeah. You know, I could kind of geek out on that question for a little while, but I think more than we have time for. But, I think you have to look people in the eyes and ask, “is this a- I can-” say, “I can hear that this is a belief that's very important to you. Is this something you're willing to study? 00;15;08;12 - 00;15;33;21 Will Grinstead Is it something you're willing to look at?” And you have to trust that people are giving you an honest answer when they say yes. And if so, I'll, I'll talk with them about that. Honestly, a lot of people are not willing to look at that, you know, for- It says something about their identity. It would mean something culturally for them to step out of, to be out of step with their church or their denomination. 00;15;33;24 - 00;15;55;17 Will Grinstead All these other things are place that- people think they're placing at risk by questioning this one belief for some reason that I, it's hard for me to look back and understand that. And yet I know that there was a time for me when this was, this was a belief that I had, and at least at some level, about people's identity. 00;15;55;19 - 00;16;26;28 Will Grinstead So as hard as it may be, that the way that we take steps forward is by taking a step toward with compassion, even the people that are, that are really easy to kind of hold at arm's length. So as a pastor, I trust that when I do, do that towards someone who has a belief that's different than mine, that there's something intrinsically good in their, in their spirit that will, that can recognize that and take a step towards me as well. 00;16;27;01 - 00;16;46;06 J.R. Jamison Jamison: Do you ever encounter in those experiences, similar to the experience you share in the story, where you feel like people are holding back a little on how much they want to share? And how do you, how do you get them to share more in that situation, or do you just let it go where it may go? 00;16;46;08 - 00;17;14;15 Will Grinstead Grinstead: Yeah, well, I think every, every one is a little bit different and unique. I, I try to remember that, you know, bringing openness creates the space for some of that openness. And people have to own some of that themselves. But, when I go in and present a kind of a very open attitude of ministry, it, it can, it leaves space for other people to fill that out how they want, kind of like a paint by numbers or something. 00;17;14;18 - 00;17;20;20 Will Grinstead And yeah, people fill that space in in all kinds of different ways. And that's, that's all right with me. 00;17;20;22 - 00;17;24;07 Kelsey Timmerman Timmerman: Will Grinstead, thank you so much for coming on, sharing your story. 00;17;24;10 - 00;17;30;14 Will Grinstead Grinstead: Thank you for having me. This is really wonderful. [Soulful acoustic rock music] 00;17;30;16 - 00;17;41;12 Dan Deitrich Deitrich [singing]: You said to love the lost. So I’m loving you now. You said speak the truth. 00;17;41;14 - 00;17;54;00 Dan Deitrich I'm calling you out. Why don't you live the words that you put in my mouth? 00;17;54;02 - 00;18;01;29 Dan Deitrich May love overcome and justice roll down. 00;18;02;01 - 00;18;15;05 J.R. Jamison Jamison: As someone who's been pained by the church, I found our conversation with Will to be healing. And it was a reminder that we must forgive ourselves and others for past transgressions. For me, it was a touching and unscripted moment that I won't forget. 00;18;15;07 - 00;18;35;20 Kelsey Timmerman Timmerman: Yeah, I won't forget that either. It's like we weren't in the studio. The mics faded away and it was just us chatting with Will. And shortly after that episode, the studio actually did fade away. Our producer Sean said it was because of Covid, but I think it was because of that time, maybe a couple times, that we snuck donuts into the studio. [Laughing] 00;18;35;22 - 00;18;36;25 J.R. Jamison Jamison: Or spilled coffee. [Laughs] 00;18;36;29 - 00;18;37;20 Kelsey Timmerman Timmerman: It was J.R., Sean! 00;18;37;20 - 00;18;48;13 J.R. Jamison Jamison: Or water, like the time when, I was interviewing James Fallows, and that was cut, but I spilled an entire glass of water in the middle of the interview, and, so yeah. [Laughter] 00;18;48;13 - 00;19;17;04 Kelsey Timmerman Timmerman: Yeah, well, regardless, there was no more face to face for the Facing Project. And that included Dayton's Facing Gun Violence project. So that project was a definite highlight for me. The Dayton community had been through so much: a tornado, a Klan rally, and then a mass shooting. But the stories they shared, they were filled with so much strength and love and forgiveness and healing, especially the story of Jason Phillips, the bouncer at the club where the shooting took place. 00;19;17;07 - 00;19;28;10 Kelsey Timmerman This story is from episode 11 of season two, “A Shooting in the Heartland.” A listener warning here, Jason's story describes a violent shooting in the tragic aftermath. 00;19;28;13 - 00;19;50;04 Chris Hahn Hahn: I ran the door at Ned Peppers for a long time. I heard four shots come from across the street. I've lived in the city long enough to be able to kind of pinpoint where shots are coming from. I just expected to see some guys running away because it went pow pow pow pow, real quick, and I thought it was just some inner city beef and people were going to scatter and it'd be over. 00;19;50;06 - 00;20;17;14 Chris Hahn There was a brief lull after those first four shots, and then it started again. It was intentional. It was targeted. I could tell the shots were being thought out. I thought to myself, this is not okay. I realized it wasn't just a handgun. It was a much more powerful gun. I started looking for muzzle flash, but as I started looking, all hell was breaking loose and people were running past me. 00;20;17;16 - 00;20;42;14 Chris Hahn I realized at that point I needed to kind of protect myself. I realized that I could not do anything to neutralize whoever was shooting because I couldn't locate them. The shots were going off. They kept going off. One of the other bouncers said, “Get inside! Get inside!” I wear a vest when I'm out on my bike. As I run in, my vest catches the door handle and it jerks me to a stop and I have to back up. 00;20;42;14 - 00;21;01;24 Chris Hahn Bullets going past. I have to unhook myself. I looked directly ahead of me and it's just a pile of human beings. The whole dance floor, about two thirds of the way back, was a wall of people trying to climb over each other. I look to the right, where you go up to the DJ booth or go down stairs. 00;21;01;26 - 00;21;18;06 Chris Hahn People had crowded in there blocking the stairs, both directions up and down. I looked to the bar. There's no way I actually can get down behind the bar. Gunshots are going off. There's nowhere to go. 00;21;18;08 - 00;21;42;29 Chris Hahn I got down behind the trash can and put my back up against it. The only thing blocking me was a Rubbermaid trash can. I just made myself as small as possible. I remember thinking, pull your legs in, get small, get small. I got small, and I remember covering my head like in a tornado drill in school, and I would open my eyes every once in a while. 00;21;43;02 - 00;22;13;22 Chris Hahn There was a car, headlights shining in, and maybe it was the streetlight. I don't know. It was a bright light shining into that patio wall that was open. And I remember dust. Dust rolling past me, illuminated by the light, whether it was gunsmoke or what. I just remember all this dust going past me. The only thing I can think of was my eldest daughter just turned 11. 00;22;13;24 - 00;22;34;16 Chris Hahn She's going to remember me. My middle daughter just turned three. She may have some vague memories of me, but my youngest was a year and a half, and there's no way she's going to remember me. And I kept thinking, there's no way that Haley is going to remember her dad. 00;22;34;18 - 00;22;52;12 Chris Hahn I was close enough that I could hear the bullets crack as they went by. It was like a miniature sonic boom. A sound I never want to hear again. Then all of the sudden, shooting was done. I don't know how I figured out it was certainly over and safe to stand up. But you could see on one of the videos they played on the news. 00;22;52;20 - 00;23;15;15 Chris Hahn Me standing up next to the trash can. I kept checking myself, feeling myself. Where are the bullet holes? I stood up and there was that guy, Connor Betts, dead, basically four feet away from me. A bullet was lodged in the floor directly next to my leg. Another went through the door directly where I was prior to running inside. 00;23;15;18 - 00;23;41;02 Chris Hahn There's a hole through what would have been me, which was lodged in the other door. I watched his body start to change color. Very quickly, when a human dies, the color leaves the body. I sat there looking at this guy and his chubby face was kind of pointed at me. I didn't see some animal, some monster. I saw somebody’s child. 00;23;41;05 - 00;23;50;04 Chris Hahn Period. Somebody's kid just got killed. He was somebody's pride and joy. 00;23;50;06 - 00;24;17;27 Chris Hahn I guess I was totally in shock. I shut down. Everyone else is crying and screaming, and I'm like, this is crazy, but calm down. Down the sidewalk, people were laid out. Some had been shot, some hadn't. Some were alive. Some were dead. It's so fuzzy and so clear all at the same time. It all comes out in the news several days later. 00;24;18;00 - 00;24;38;19 Chris Hahn They had so many red flags this kid was disturbed. The kid had a hit list. The kid had this, this, this, this. People knew this kid was dangerous. They never got him the mental health help that he needed. The whole system failed this kid. 00;24;38;21 - 00;25;00;08 Chris Hahn On the morning of August 4th, I'm sitting on the couch with my wife and two youngest daughters, and I'm crying. And I finally kind of dry up a little bit. I look over and my one and a half year old has a balloon, and it pops up out of her hands into the air. She's reaching in the air for it, and giggling and smiling so big. 00;25;00;10 - 00;25;24;28 Chris Hahn She's so happy with a simplistic thing like a balloon. So pure. I lost it. I broke down harder than I've probably ever broken down in my life. I told my wife, “You know, his parents used to watch him do that. Connor Betts’s parents used to watch him do that.” 00;25;25;00 - 00;25;35;16 Kelsey Timmerman Timmerman: We're so thankful for the Dayton International Peace Museum for running that project. And to Mayor Nan Whaley, who made time to support the project even during the pandemic. 00;25;35;19 - 00;25;47;21 J.R. Jamison Jamison: One of my other favorite moments from this season have been the listener call-ins. We never know what they are going to say or where they're coming from, and one listener told us to keep moving and to never give up. 00;25;47;24 - 00;26;16;02 Jay from St. Mary's, Ohio This is Jay. I'm 82 years old. I live in Saint Mary's, Ohio, which is about an hour and 15 minutes from Muncie, Indiana, and frequently doing this Covid, I travel to Muncie to visit with my daughter just to break up the monotony of staring at these four walls. If I had to give anybody any advice, as I said, I'm 82, 00;26;16;04 - 00;26;43;13 Jay from St. Mary's, Ohio as you reach my age, stay active. Stay as active as you possibly can. Because I've learned over the years that people that stop, decide they're just going to sit and read and watch television die within about a year. So let's not have that happen. My activity is primarily centered around music. I'm a long time musician, and I play string bass in a lot of concert bands and jazz bands. 00;26;43;15 - 00;26;51;12 Jay from St. Mary's, Ohio So that's it. Stay active. Keep busy. Stay safe and stay away from the virus. Thank you. 00;26;51;15 - 00;27;10;01 J.R. Jamison Jamison: What Jay didn't mention that we've since learned from his daughter is that he was in the control room in Houston during Apollo 13. Yes, you heard that right. Jay worked for NASA, making sure their Sperry Univac computers didn't fail. He said to his daughter, “That day sure didn't go as planned.” 00;27;10;03 - 00;27;41;08 Kelsey Timmerman Timmerman: Wherever you find yourself at this moment, we know it's hard not to look back at 2020 and think about all that we lost, but we hope you are able to find something from this year that will keep you going. And to that, here's to 2021. We'll be back then with all new episodes of The Facing Project. [Theme music] 00;27;41;11 - 00;28;04;23 J.R. Jamison Jamison: We want to thank Sinclair Community College's music, theater and dance department for recruiting and recording the voice actors for the Dayton Gun Violence stories. Gina Neuerer and Kimberly Borst provided direction. Daniel Brunk provided sound. Chris Hahn played Jason Phillips, with story by Whitney Bell and Jason Phillips. A clip of Dan Deitrich’s song “Hymn for the 81%” was heard in this episode and was used with permission. 00;28;04;25 - 00;28;32;25 Kelsey Timmerman Timmerman: To listen to past episodes of this program, visit IndianaPublicRadio.org/TheFacingProject. From there, you can subscribe to the podcast where you'll get episodes of the Facing Project delivered to your device each month. Listeners can contribute stories or volunteer to share the stories of others with the Facing Project that may appear in the show. More information at FacingProject.com/InspireAction, and to continue the conversation about this episode, find us on Facebook at The Facing Project. 00;28;32;27 - 00;28;54;03 J.R. Jamison Jamison: The Facing Project is recorded at Indiana Public Radio at Ball State University in beautiful Muncie, Indiana, and it's produced by Sean Ashcraft. The show is distributed nationally through PRX. We are your host, Kelsey Timmerman and J.R. Jamison, and until next time, we wish you the courage to share your own story and the empathy to listen to others. [Theme music]