00;00;00;07 - 00;00;09;02 Kelsey Timmerman Timmerman: Poverty is everywhere, but we like to pretend it doesn't exist and could never happen to us. Yet 38 million Americans live in poverty. I'm Kelsey Timmerman. 00;00;09;03 - 00;00;30;11 J.R. Jamison Jamison: And I'm J.R. Jamison. Today on the Facing Project, we'll discuss the invisible poor and share a story of a woman who sees home as more than a physical space, and a story of a homeless man who wants to be seen. And later in the show will be joined by community organizer Dorica Watson. [Theme music] 00;00;30;13 - 00;00;48;08 Kelsey Timmerman Timmerman: Most cultures have a prejudice toward the poor. I'm noticed this when I travel. I've had translators in China and Cambodia who wondered why I would want to talk to people who worked in a garment factory or who lived in a slum. I've had plenty of translators and friends who said things like, “They talk uneducated,” and, “They do things because they don't know better.” 00;00;48;10 - 00;01;08;13 Kelsey Timmerman For many of my translators, the poor in their country are as invisible to them as the poor in my own had been to me until I started to volunteer. Researchers found that tourists on slum tours in India looked at slum residents as a positive part of a community and culture, while they perceived the homeless in their own communities as lazy or addicts. 00;01;08;17 - 00;01;12;05 Kelsey Timmerman We are harsher critics of the poor in our own communities. 00;01;12;09 - 00;01;38;23 J.R. Jamison Jamison: The narrative of the American Dream, where if you work hard you will succeed, lends itself to an undercurrent of the inverse. Those who don't work hard aren’t successful, as if poverty is solely a condition of lack of effort. We fear poverty. We are made uncomfortable by poverty. We judge people. We ignore people. We put the responsibility on the poor and not on ourselves until we meet them. 00;01;38;25 - 00;01;52;01 Kelsey Timmerman Timmerman: And that's kind of where the Facing Project started. The Facing Project has its origins in the topic of poverty. J.R. and I both volunteered for an organization that worked to break the cycle of poverty in our own community, Muncie, Indiana. 00;01;52;02 - 00;02;05;14 J.R. Jamison Jamison: Yeah, the experience broke down all of my stereotypes regarding poverty actually, including ones that I didn't even realize I had until I was a part of Teamwork for Quality Living, the organization that partnered with us on the very first Facing Project. 00;02;05;14 - 00;02;30;04 Kelsey Timmerman Timmerman: So, so often in our nation, we judge people who live in poverty or who are immigrants, who are addicts. Yet often we don't know a single person who faces that reality. And until we have a face and a name and a story to match with the statistic, are we really at a place to understand the issue, create policy or interventions? Facing Poverty told the stories of those in our community who lived in poverty. 00;02;30;05 - 00;02;58;09 J.R. Jamison Jamison: In fact, 21% of citizens of Delaware County where Muncie is located live in poverty, and 26% are the working poor who struggle to meet basic needs on a monthly basis. Not seeing these individuals or understanding their situations, knowing their names, their hopes, dreams, was to ignore almost half of our fellow citizens. I was once naive enough to think that if someone is homeless, they don't have a home. 00;02;58;10 - 00;03;07;27 J.R. Jamison That statement alone, that homeless means no home, may seem counterintuitive, but our first story changed my perspective forever. 00;03;07;29 - 00;03;15;15 Kelsey Timmerman Timmerman: Sonya Johnson was living in the YWCA when we met her, and she taught us that home is more than just a physical space. 00;03;15;18 - 00;03;40;26 Terry Whitt Bailey Bailey: At 17 years old, Edward Johnson was only interested in one thing: a one night stand, while 16 year old Thelma Durtin searched for someone to love. One thing led to another and they found out they were expecting me, Sonya Johnson. My mother didn't know what to do. She was determined to marry my father, whether they loved each other or not. 00;03;40;26 - 00;04;10;25 Terry Whitt Bailey So they married. And I was born in Gary, Indiana. My father worked all the time to make ends meet, and my mother didn't know how to handle a newborn and a new marriage. She would leave me alone for hours at a time, either for work or for drugs. My grandmother dropped by unexpectedly one day and she found me in my crib, dirty, hungry, soiled and all alone. 00;04;10;28 - 00;04;39;03 Terry Whitt Bailey From that point on, I lived with my grandparents. My grandparents loved me and gave me everything I needed, but they couldn't give me the one thing I craved: my biological parents’ love. After high school, I began to seek out my biological parents. First, I found my mother. She was beautiful, and I hoped she would tell me she loved me. 00;04;39;05 - 00;05;06;05 Terry Whitt Bailey The entire time we talked, she never once asked about how I was doing or anything about me. I did not get the “I love you” or the apology that I hoped for. This devastated me. I went back to my car and I cried so hard that I couldn't drive. So then I set out to meet my father. I knew he had to want me. 00;05;06;08 - 00;05;31;25 Terry Whitt Bailey Edward Johnson had become a big time drug dealer. He had a fancy gold Cadillac and plenty of money. He owned an arcade, which he used as a front for his drug business. I found love: conditional love. I wanted to do anything to get my father's love. I went to school during the day, but was a drug runner for him at night. 00;05;31;26 - 00;06;00;13 Terry Whitt Bailey I had fancy clothes and a fancy car. I started drinking at 20 years old to fit in, and I partied every night. Drinking and partying so much made it hard to get to school on time. So I dropped out of college. In my mid 20s, I had no future, no plans and fake love. Nothing real. I kept drinking more to make myself feel good. 00;06;00;17 - 00;06;27;12 Terry Whitt Bailey I was estranged from my grandparents who had raised me. I was all alone. While at a friend's party, I engaged in a one night stand that resulted in my beautiful daughter, Apolonia. But just like my father, this man didn't want anything to do with either of us. But in my daughter, I found someone who would love me. 00;06;27;14 - 00;06;54;11 Terry Whitt Bailey I did my best to make ends meet, but it wasn't enough. I went back to drinking to drown my pain. I left my daughter with my grandmother so I could party. At the age of 26, I was pregnant again with my daughter, Mercedes. I loved being a mom, but I was still empty inside, and I continued to numb it by drinking every day. 00;06;54;13 - 00;07;29;08 Terry Whitt Bailey I was a functioning alcoholic. I thought I hid it well, but my grandmother and oldest daughter knew everything. I just went to work, drank, slept, repeat. For years this went on. My father died from an overdose of crack at 45. And then my grandparents both died. I was in a dark place and couldn't get out of bed. I prayed for God to just take me. 00;07;29;11 - 00;08;01;19 Terry Whitt Bailey I started partying even more. I switched from beer to vodka because vodka numb the pain quicker. Eventually, I attempted to commit suicide. I was admitted into a mental health facility. My daughter Mercedes came to rescue me, but when she showed up, she barely recognized me. I had lost a lot of weight and only weighed 95 pounds. So my daughter brought me here to live in Muncie. 00;08;01;21 - 00;08;32;16 Terry Whitt Bailey My life was a mess, and I needed to pick up the pieces. I found a home and a family at the YWCA. The people here have loved me unconditionally. They loved me through the good and the bad. Here at the YWCA, we are family. Actually, they treat me better than my own family. These are my sisters, and we look out for each other. 00;08;32;18 - 00;09;03;08 Terry Whitt Bailey A lot of time, when people think of a homeless shelter, they see images of dirty, stinky addicts who are not motivated to get on the right track. The YWCA is helping to change that stereotype. Just because we live at the YWCA does not mean that we're worthless or less human. We may not have a lot, and we may be without a permanent home, but we look out for each other and make sure no one goes without their necessities. 00;09;03;11 - 00;09;26;24 Terry Whitt Bailey Recently, I started the boutique. We set up an area in the building where the other ladies who live here can come in and shop through donated professional clothes for free. Earlier today, one of our residents had to go to court. I saw her walk into the common area, and I said, “Girl, you can't go to court looking like that. 00;09;26;25 - 00;09;57;21 Terry Whitt Bailey Let's get you fixed up.” So we took her into the boutique and got her dressed properly to stand before the judge. Then we all walked with her to the courthouse and supported her. Right now, we're waiting for her to come back to the YWCA with good news about her case. We look out for each other like that. We're a building full of women and children, so of course we have our differences of opinion and don't always get along. 00;09;57;22 - 00;10;21;17 Terry Whitt Bailey Life is not always rainbows here, but we're learning ways of dealing with conflict. We've started a girl talk group, and we meet most days over coffee and talked through our problems and issues. It really helps to be in a community where we can all talk about what we're going through and find ways to handle them. Even though we live in a shelter, we do what all families do. 00;10;21;24 - 00;10;43;09 Terry Whitt Bailey We play games. We watch TV or movies. We exercise, take walks. We swim in the pool. We sing karaoke. We do laundry, and we go grocery shopping together. If someone here needs to go to work or school, we watch the kids while they do that. If someone needs help practicing for a job interview, we help them do that. 00;10;43;11 - 00;11;13;25 Terry Whitt Bailey If someone needs to talk down from making a bad decision, we do that too. Everyone has their role. My time here at the YWCA has been one of the best parts of my life, and I love this place. It has truly saved my life. I am on the path out of the shelter program and into permanent housing. By the end of this year, I will be living on my own. 00;11;13;27 - 00;11;38;18 Terry Whitt Bailey Now that can be scary. A lot of us have never really lived on our own before, but I'm working through the program at the YWCA, and I'll be ready to be on my own. Even after I move out, I'll still have a family with those who are here. I'll have access to support services to be sure I stay on my feet and don't end up back in a shelter again. 00;11;38;20 - 00;12;05;23 Terry Whitt Bailey Last weekend I visited my daughter Mercedes. I didn't have to tell her I was sober. She could look at me and tell immediately. I still have some work I need to do in my family relationships, though. I'm not very close with my oldest daughter. I've been sober since August 15th of 2015, but she's seen me at my worst. 00;12;05;25 - 00;12;34;10 Terry Whitt Bailey I can't be mad at her for being distant right now. One day I hope to prove myself to her, and we can be closer. Home isn't just a place where you live. I've lived a lot of different places that didn't feel like home. Home is a place where people support one another and go through life together. For my first time in my life, I found my home. 00;12;34;16 - 00;12;51;00 Terry Whitt Bailey And for that, I am truly grateful. Here at the YWCA, we don't call this place a shelter. It's our home. [Upbeat Motown-inspired beats] 00;12;51;02 - 00;13;03;17 J.R. Jamison Jamison: Our next story comes from Rome, Georgia, and like the first storyteller, Sonya, James has found home in an unexpected place. And his only request a simple: treat him like any other person. 00;13;03;19 - 00;13;29;16 Curtis Mardis Mardis: Excuse me? What are you looking at? Do I look that different than you? Out here on the street, you might not see me at all. It's easier to look away. I'm not invisible. I'm a person of color. A big guy who loves to laugh with a great smile, I might add. My name is James, thanks for asking. Why don't I just get a job? 00;13;29;18 - 00;13;59;22 Curtis Mardis Just apply at McDonald's or a fast food joint? It might surprise you that I have held a job in the past. I haven't always been like this. I work with adolescents at Northwest Georgia Regional Hospital, and for three years, I even worked at Starbucks. How long have I been, what? Homeless? It's fine. You may call me that, homeless. I have spent 8 to 9 years of the last 14 years without a place to belong. 00;13;59;25 - 00;14;24;02 Curtis Mardis I have slept in hospitals to escape the heat of summers and camped out next to libraries at night. You'll meet a lot of us there. My family couldn't help me out, but friends became my family. I would be lost without them, and not lost like in wandering the streets without direction, but gone, dead. How did I end up like this? 00;14;24;04 - 00;14;47;17 Curtis Mardis My story is a little bit different than yours, but we're all billed a hand, and this one is mine. My deck is rigged with a series of diverse happenings and unfortunate circumstances which led me to where I am today. After graduating high school, I did a brief stint in community college studying computer science, but my grandma became real sick. 00;14;47;24 - 00;15;11;01 Curtis Mardis I dropped out to take care of her. Her house burnt down. She moved to a nursing home, and I've been on the streets on and off ever since. Severe depression and anxiety have plagued me for years also. To some, depression is just an excuse. Just another reason that I don't have work. With no job, no prospects, no place to stay. 00;15;11;05 - 00;15;42;21 Curtis Mardis Little available help from family. You'd be depressed too. I had no support system and no one to motivate me or encourage me. I had no hope. Few truly understand how crippling severe depression can be. Everything kept piling up higher and higher. Eventually, I tried to end my life. I found help at Highland River's Health, a public health center that helps those with mental illness, addictions and those in crisis situations. 00;15;42;27 - 00;16;10;12 Curtis Mardis These people got me back on track. I started taking medication to sooth the depression and anxiety. I also received medication for a congenital heart failure, which thankfully increased my quality of and chances of life. The shelter I’m at now, the Davies Shelter, has been my favorite and has become my second home, or first, rather. This place has given me hope and a second chance. 00;16;10;18 - 00;16;34;22 Curtis Mardis Some of us don't always get one, a second chance, so I consider myself fortunate. The Davies Shelter has offered me hope in ways nothing else has. I'm around people who generally care for me. These people are like family. Here, I belong. I finally have a support system, and this helps stave off depression and motivates me to keep improving myself. 00;16;34;25 - 00;16;57;19 Curtis Mardis I have to work towards something while I'm here. Whether that is finding a job, making contacts, or actively trying to get better health care. When you have the necessities found in a home, it's easier to move forward. The Davies Shelter, in a way, allows me to remake myself. When you're constantly ignored or look down upon with judgmental eyes, 00;16;57;21 - 00;17;21;07 Curtis Mardis you begin to believe and live out the stereotypes and stigmas. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy of sorts. You cannot help but play that role. Since I live in a home now, I have peace of mind for the first time since I was a kid, and I no longer see myself in that role. I'm becoming a person in the eyes of society again. 00;17;21;10 - 00;17;46;20 Curtis Mardis Did you ever see me when I was without a home? For many Americans, poverty is seen and epitomized as those children the TV viewers are asked to sponsor for $0.28 a day. Children a world away, surrounded by trash, decay and garbage. People who live without access to adequate drinking water, or those who live from cent to cent without much hope. To many, 00;17;46;26 - 00;18;17;22 Curtis Mardis poverty is still abstract and distant. However, this sadly is not the case, and I'm living proof that it isn't. Do you know what it feels like to be without hope? A silver lining? Day after day I constantly asked myself, where would I rest my head? Where will my next meal come from? You ask about my job situation. Well, it's mighty difficult to find a job when your immediate needs aren't being met. 00;18;17;25 - 00;18;43;03 Curtis Mardis Yeah, I know what you might say. If I had a job that pays, then I get out of that situation. Simple, right? But it's not. For me, my debilitating health renders hope for a job minuscule. Who would hire a health liability? It's easy to judge my situation while you have a full stomach. Sure, give me your spare change. 00;18;43;11 - 00;19;07;06 Curtis Mardis Sure, give me a cut out of the classifieds. To you, I may be invisible. All other invisible people all over Rome, Atlanta, and your city are anything but. But what I really want, what I really need, is for someone to talk to me. Talk to me. Talk to me and treat me like a person. My name is James. 00;19;07;08 - 00;19;31;14 Curtis Mardis I am educated, well read and articulate. I am a victim of circumstances. I would never choose this for myself, so please, don't treat me like I do. I could see in your eyes that you have asked questions of people like me. You’ve judged us before you even know us. Treat us like people. Say, “Hey!” Don't feel obligated to give. 00;19;31;15 - 00;19;43;13 Curtis Mardis But please, give us the time of day or passing greeting. [Chill Motown-inspired beats] 00;19;43;16 - 00;19;51;08 Kelsey Timmerman Timmerman: We want to welcome to the show Dorica Watson, the community organizer who was involved in the very first Facing Project, Facing Poverty. Dorica, thanks for joining us. 00;19;51;09 - 00;19;54;26 Dorica Watson Watson: Thank you for having me. I'm excited to join you all today. 00;19;54;27 - 00;20;03;20 Kelsey Timmerman Timmerman: I'm so excited to have you on. And how did you first get involved in working on initiatives on combating poverty in our community? 00;20;03;22 - 00;20;27;24 Dorica Watson Watson: Yeah, I often tell people I didn't find poverty, poverty found me. I absolutely grew up as an under-resourced child, and from there, I grew up then to be an under-resourced adult. And when I think about that process, I, I really began to say, I just, I don't- I want to be as far away from poverty as I could possibly be. 00;20;27;24 - 00;20;57;13 Dorica Watson And throughout my, my time at Ball State, throughout obtaining my degree, there was an opportunity for the graduating seniors to do some volunteer time with the local nonprofit that was working on poverty alleviation, and I thought I would like to spend my time doing anything but that. It kind of felt like I was going to be serving a prison sentence, and I was more interested in serving that sentence than showing up at a community event with an organization that focused solely on poverty. 00;20;57;13 - 00;21;16;10 Dorica Watson But I quickly found out that not only was that my, my background, but it would also be my future. Just really advocating for and walking alongside individuals who are under-resourced, helping them find their voice. 00;21;16;12 - 00;21;26;17 Kelsey Timmerman Timmerman: So the term “poverty” itself is kind of sort of pretty broad brush, like, do you prefer to say under-resourced, or how do you differentiate between...? 00;21;26;19 - 00;21;54;00 Dorica Watson Watson: It's really kind of how I feel in the moment. I- for many years, I didn't like to hear the word poverty mentioned. I would hear it mentioned, and I felt like I was demeaning a group of individuals. And so I stopped saying it. I would say underserved, under-resourced communities. And then one day someone said to me, “If we're- if you're going to empower individuals, allow them to own that word.” 00;21;54;01 - 00;22;16;03 Dorica Watson And it literally changed my mindset. I used to tell a little story. This will be quick, but I used to tell a little story because I absolutely love The Lion King. And there's this one point in The Lion King where the hyenas are, are saying, “Mufasa,” right? And they're saying, “Mufasa.” And every time they say Mufasa, they shiver, and they say, “Say it again, say it again.” 00;22;16;03 - 00;22;43;27 Dorica Watson And they keep saying, “Mufasa.” And that's how I felt like I wanted to help individuals who are in poverty represent themselves. Like every time you say poverty, know that someone is, is overcoming, that they, they continue to fight every single day, that they're working hard, and kind of that same shiver that, that would happen with Mufasa. And so from that point forward, and that's probably been 12 or 13 years ago. 00;22;43;27 - 00;22;48;07 Dorica Watson From that point forward, I was very comfortable saying the word poverty. 00;22;48;09 - 00;22;59;02 Kelsey Timmerman Timmerman: Yeah. So there's multiple different types of poverty that folks talk about, including like situational, generational and cyclical. Could you kind of break those down a little bit for us? 00;22;59;07 - 00;23;28;17 Dorica Watson Watson: Yeah. So I am a person that, it’s pretty basic in terms of my definition of poverty. You definitely have that generational poverty where you're looking at multiple generations, at least two, as you look back. My mother was in poverty. My mother's mother was in poverty. So therefore I am in poverty, in generational poverty. You have that situational poverty where something just happened, maybe a loss of job, maybe a pandemic, something happened to cause, to cause that poverty. 00;23;28;17 - 00;23;49;05 Dorica Watson And you have that cyclical poverty where, you know, as you look around, you have multiple people in that area that are also dealing with poverty. But I really like to look at poverty a little, a little broader than that. I define it personally by the extent to which an individual does without resources. So for me, it doesn't matter if it's financial. 00;23;49;05 - 00;24;05;07 Dorica Watson Financial is one aspect of an individual. That's not a whole person. So is it financial? Is it emotional? Is it social? Is it mental? Is it, is it physical? Is it spiritual? I think if you are absent of a resource, that can have you in a particular poverty. 00;24;05;10 - 00;24;25;07 Kelsey Timmerman Timmerman: I remember going to a meeting to become a volunteer with Teamwork for Quality Living. That's where I first met you, and you were, like, one of the instructors. And then we had many sessions through, throughout the years, and you were educating folks like me on kind of what, what, what that term meant, how it applied in our community. And through Teamwork, 00;24;25;08 - 00;24;29;05 Kelsey Timmerman like, what kind of poverty did you see the most? 00;24;29;07 - 00;25;08;06 Dorica Watson Watson: So a lot of the poverty that we saw with Teamwork was generational poverty. A number of people who had only known the struggle, the financial struggle. And unfortunately, sometimes when you are dealing with the financial struggle, the community looks at you with this very negative lens. And so we really wanted to change not only the face of poverty, but how individuals interacted with individuals in poverty, because it's really difficult to become empowered when everywhere you step, someone looks at you less than, because you are financially under-resourced. 00;25;08;06 - 00;25;17;26 Dorica Watson And so, yeah, primarily generational poverty is what we saw. Occasionally there was some situational but primarily generational poverty. 00;25;17;29 - 00;25;33;19 Kelsey Timmerman Timmerman: And also with your work, you often led what are called poverty simulations, and which kind of walked folks like me through some of the realities that folks might face. And so can you describe what those trainings were like? 00;25;33;21 - 00;26;01;03 Dorica Watson Watson: Yeah. So a poverty simulation is a 2.5 hour role play. Everyone comes in, they're given an identity in this quasi-town that we refer to as Realville. And in Realville, there are up to about 90 participants, and everyone has a different role. And so you may be a person who's employed, you may be unemployed, you may be married, you may be single, you may be a grandparent who's taken care of, of your, of your grandchildren. 00;26;01;03 - 00;26;30;13 Dorica Watson And then there are all of the community workers. And so every type of organization that you would find in a community is represented in Realville. So there's an employer, there's a doctor's office, there's a grocery store, there's a bank, kind of going along those lines. There's social service agencies. And so the intention is that someone would attempt to survive in poverty for the course of one month, and one month is broken down into four, 15 minute weeks. 00;26;30;13 - 00;26;33;05 Dorica Watson That's played out in about 2.5 hours. 00;26;33;07 - 00;26;58;28 Kelsey Timmerman Timmerman: Yeah, I, I volunteered, I went through a couple of those, I volunteered for those. And every time I volunteered, I was always given the role of like, the drug dealer. I don't know what that said- what you guys thought about me, but that's, that's the role I got about every time. So, like, what “a-ha” moments did you see, like, through those poverty simulations, and like, what is something that, like, hit people that didn't realize maybe before going through that activity? 00;26;58;29 - 00;27;33;10 Dorica Watson Watson: Yeah, I think one of the things that - it was a pretty frequent “a-ha” moment - is that individuals often enter the poverty simulation thinking that individuals who are in poverty were just lazy, that weren't working hard at all. And I believe many left that, that simulation realizing that often the harder, you know- that the arithmetic of life doesn't often work out for individuals who are under-resourced. And so realizing that they were working hard, but something happened in their neighborhood that they couldn't prevent. 00;27;33;12 - 00;27;54;10 Dorica Watson Something happened in their community where something may have been taken, or they, they went, they paid a bill, but they didn't have a receipt. So no one trusted the fact that you actually had paid a bill. So there were a lot of “a-ha” moments, and we reckoned with a lot of judgments that had been made about, you know, financially under-resourced people. 00;27;54;10 - 00;28;23;03 Dorica Watson So those “a-has” were really clear. Another “a-ha” that, that just comes to mind is with education. How a lot of school- there's, there's this poem that said something along - I don't know the exact title - but it's, “Because I Ain't Got No Pencil.” And so I don't know if you're familiar with that poem, but there's this little boy who's telling the story and all of the things that he had to do to get ready to go to school. 00;28;23;03 - 00;29;03;14 Dorica Watson And then his teacher basically dismissed him because he didn't have a pencil and just totally disregarded all of his, his, his attempts to make, you know, life as good as he can make it. And so I think, again, going back to the educational piece, just realizing the cost of a field trip for a family who is financially under-resourced, the cost of special crayons or pencils that are required in particular classrooms. If the, the old basic number two pencil doesn't work because you have to have a $10 pack of pencils that don't last you any time, 00;29;03;14 - 00;29;17;14 Dorica Watson what that, what that could be- how that could be for a family. So I think a lot of “a-ha” moments were happening just realizing that some of those stereotypes and what to feel about the poor were just not true. 00;29;17;16 - 00;29;30;00 Kelsey Timmerman Timmerman: So you say, like, you grew up under-resourced, and then later in your life you helped people who were under-resourced, how did that experience of, of working with people, how did it change you? 00;29;30;03 - 00;30;00;24 Dorica Watson Watson: I think, goodness, Kelsey, that, that question, I think I'm still changing. You know, I don't think that, that I will ever be stagnant again in my life. I think that I realize being an under-resourced person, I didn't have voice, choice or power, and it often felt like things were happening to me. And so I realized that I was able to get beyond that place, and not because I was able to do it, 00;30;00;24 - 00;30;21;03 Dorica Watson you should be able to do it too, but because I was able to do it, let's walk together so that that increases your opportunity, that, that web of support, so to speak. Let's, let's help make this community a better place. And I think that's probably the one thing that I learned that I could give back, that no one does anything in isolation. 00;30;21;04 - 00;30;45;05 Dorica Watson We all need someone to, to make it. We all need someone to see the best in us. And not only could I see the best in the families that, that I walked alongside, they could also see the best in me. Like, some of my best attributes came out because someone who, who was under-resourced believed in me. Like, you know, someone said to me before, “Who would have thunk it? 00;30;45;07 - 00;31;08;17 Dorica Watson You know, like, who really, really would’ve thought that that could be the case.” But we often discount individuals, again, based on what they're able to, to do financially. But that's not the whole person. That's literally just the arm, but you've got the rest of the body. And so I probably learned more, Kelsey, over the last 15 years than, than I have given to anyone else. 00;31;08;19 - 00;31;24;29 Kelsey Timmerman Timmerman: Well, I mean, you certainly gave a lot to those of us who were involved and who you taught, so I appreciate that. So what can communities do and what have you seen that works to better support their neighbors living in poverty? 00;31;25;01 - 00;32;04;24 Dorica Watson Watson: Yeah, I think the one thing for me that, that I am a huge advocate for is relationships. One of my favorite quotes, “Human relationship is the sledgehammer that obliterates every societal difference.” I believe that when we take the time to create a relationship specifically with someone that's different from us, magic can happen. And so if a community wants to help heal the community, no better way to do that than to build a relationship with someone that's in the middle of that, that struggle or on the, on the front lines so that they could say how it would be best to help me get to where I want to go. 00;32;04;24 - 00;32;25;17 Dorica Watson So again, that relationship is key. If we're not willing to make it, what we'll see is the same thing happening over and over again, because- and I'm guilty of this too. When I first started the work, I really had this “we build it, they come” mentality, like, “I know what's best for you. You just show up, and I'll give you what you need. 00;32;25;17 - 00;32;45;06 Dorica Watson And if you don't show up, it's because you don't want it bad enough.” And I realized that's just a trick of the enemy. That is not true at all. We can't believe that we know what's best for someone else because we do not. And so we have to ask the right questions and connect with people and develop that, that trust. 00;32;45;06 - 00;32;59;09 Dorica Watson And if those things happen, the relationship can be developed. And then we can walk hand in hand and begin to solve all sorts of problems. Poverty is just one. But we can solve so many things by building true relationships. 00;32;59;10 - 00;33;15;10 Kelsey Timmerman Timmerman: So it's really easy to go through life and just kind of all of a sudden you're in your own bubble and you're looking around and everyone else kind of looks like you and has had your life experiences, like, how do we get people out of those bubbles and connecting with people who have different lived experiences? 00;33;15;13 - 00;33;33;05 Dorica Watson Watson: You know, I think if I really had the, the answer to that, I'd probably be a millionaire, and I would not be in the place that I am right now. [Laughter] But I think that if we want better, we have to do better. And so I don't think that we're going to be able to force anyone to do anything. 00;33;33;05 - 00;34;05;19 Dorica Watson But there was, there is this quote, as a matter of fact, Molly- it's a Molly Flodder quote, and I don't even know if she remembers it, but I hear people's words, and then I'll recite them later, and someone will give me credit. And I'm like, but it wasn't me that said it. But she said something along the lines of, “With poverty, we could absolutely do nothing, and maybe it'll go away, or maybe it'll be so bad that it'll rip the fabric of our community, so much so that we will not be able to recognize it.” 00;34;05;19 - 00;34;30;19 Dorica Watson And what I take that to mean is that it doesn't matter if you are in financial poverty, it doesn't matter. But if someone in your community is, then you are affected by it. And why not figure out how we can be the solution instead of continuing to move that problem forward? And so it really takes that opportunity to say, if we want change, we have to be more than just doing lip service. 00;34;30;20 - 00;34;50;11 Dorica Watson We have to be really ready to walk it out. Now, I will tell you, there are some organizations that make that relationship a little safer. You know, you don't just walk up in the grocery store and say, “Hey, I see that you're in poverty. Let's be friends,” you know. We don't do that. So you have to go to trusted individuals to start that relationship. 00;34;50;11 - 00;35;04;17 Dorica Watson I don't, you know- now it can happen in a different way, but I think when it happens in a different way, we don't get to know everyone and understand the hidden rules in which that have allowed us all to thrive and live our lives. 00;35;04;19 - 00;35;13;13 Kelsey Timmerman Timmerman: Well, Dorica, you've been the nexus of so many of those relationships in our community. And just thank you so much for taking the time to be with us today and for all of your work. 00;35;13;16 - 00;35;30;03 Dorica Watson Watson: Thank you! Thank you so much, I appreciate you. [Theme music] 00;35;30;06 - 00;35;55;26 J.R. Jamison Jamison: James’s story was written in collaboration with Matt Pulford for Facing Hope in Rome, Georgia, and was performed by Curtis Mardis; Sonya Johnson’s story was written in collaboration with Angie Rogers-Howell for A Midsummer Night’s Narrative Storytelling Festival, and was performed by Terry Whitt Bailey. Extra special thanks to our partners at the Muncie Civic Theatre. To listen to past episodes of this program, visit IndianaPublicRadio.org/TheFacingProject. 00;35;55;26 - 00;36;12;20 J.R. Jamison From there, you can subscribe to the podcast where you'll get episodes of the Facing Project delivered to your device each month. Listeners can contribute stories or volunteer to share the stories of others with the Facing Project that may appear on the show. More information at FacingProject.com/InspireAction. 00;36;12;22 - 00;36;44;03 J.R. Jamison And to continue the conversation about this episode, find us on Facebook at The Facing Project. The Facing Project is recorded at Indiana Public Radio at Ball State University in beautiful Muncie, Indiana, and is produced by the amazing producer extraordinaire Sean Ashcraft. The show is distributed nationally through PRX. We are your host, Kelsey Timmerman and J.R. Jamison. And until next time, we wish you the courage to share your own story and the empathy to listen to others. [Theme music concludes]