00;55;00;02 - 00;55;15;24 Voiceover Support for pop of culture comes from Stallings wealth management. Daniel Stallings, financial advisor, securities and advisory services offered through Cetera advisors, LLC member, FINRA, SIPC, a broker dealer and registered investment advisor. Cetera is under separate ownership from any other named entity. 00;55;15;26 - 00;55;21;17 Michelle Kinsey This week on pop culture, heartfelt conversations and heartfelt music. 00;55;21;20 - 00;55;25;29 Jen Blackmer Author Jill Christman’s latest memoir is 20 years in the making. 00;55;25;29 - 00;55;31;28 Jill Christman And I hear myself thinking that even now and I can stop myself now, I think, well, I would do this. I was like, would you? Jill? 00;55;32;01 - 00;55;43;04 Michelle Kinsey And musical group Duende Libre tells us about the international influences they've picked up before they perform in Muncie. That's coming up. 00;55;43;06 - 00;56;13;14 Voiceover Support for Pop of Culture comes from Stallings wealth management and from you. You might have seen a federal judge's recent ruling against an executive order to defund public media. This does not reverse our loss of federal funding. So you are the reason local programing is still on IPR. Give today at Indiana Public radio.org. 00;56;13;16 - 00;56;16;11 Jen Blackmer From IPR this is pop of culture. I’m Jen Blackmer. 00;56;16;13 - 00;56;28;10 Michelle Kinsey And I'm Michele Kinsey. Coming up later this hour we chat with jazz trio Duende Libre. They'll bring a long list of international influences to a performance in Muncie. 00;56;28;12 - 00;56;39;20 Jen Blackmer But first, the Heart Folds Early is a new memoir by author Jill Christman. This is her fourth book. Jill, thanks for coming by the show to talk to us about your book. 00;56;39;22 - 00;56;50;09 Jill Christman Jen I feel like it goes without saying that I am a huge pop of culture fan, and it is my pure delight. If you could see me, I'm sparkling with delight to be here today. 00;56;50;10 - 00;57;07;23 Jen Blackmer She is to our radio listeners. We’re, we're so happy you could come by. And in the opening to the book, you say that you had been working on this book and that this book exists in and in a certain version, and then you put it away for three years. Why did you put it away? 00;57;07;26 - 00;57;49;23 Jill Christman Yeah, it was around 2018 ish. I had an agent who was shopping around a version of this book—which has tried on so many outfits, it's like someone in a prom shop, right? And I would be lying if I told you if I could remember what version that was, but we, I had an agent at the time, and it was going around to some of the big houses, and the feedback we were getting was that the marketing folks didn't know how to talk about a book that took on the subject of a second trimester medical abortion, and I took that in. 00;57;49;25 - 00;58;06;27 Jill Christman At one point, for example, there was a conversation about how they didn't know how they would position this book for sales at baby showers, for example. And I thought, that makes no sense to me. Other things I was hearing included, and I quote, motherhood has been played out. So to all of you fellow mothers, I was like. 00;58;07;02 - 00;58;08;03 Jen Blackmer Has it really? 00;58;08;03 - 00;58;29;12 Jill Christman Yes. That's news for any of you who came from a mother in some way. I don't think that that's true. But also, as an editor, I don't believe that any subject has been played out. Anyway, it started to seem really hard. I'm going to be really honest. It just started to seem really hard. And I thought to myself, is this the battle I want to fight? 00;58;29;14 - 00;58;52;01 Jill Christman I thought, no writing is ever wasted. I worked really hard on this book. I learned a lot about myself and about the world from writing this book. I'm good and I'm out. Like, yeah, yeah, I was out and and then, as you said, as you in the in the prolog, I talk about it. The Dobbs decision came down in the summer of 2022. 00;58;52;04 - 00;59;14;27 Jill Christman I remember where I was as I heard the news, and it would sound like hyperbole to tell you that I knew on that day that I would return to this manuscript and finish it. But I knew on that day I would return to this manuscript and finish it, because I knew I had the capacity to tell a story that I wasn't able to find that I desperately needed to hear, 00;59;14;29 - 00;59;20;07 Jill Christman when I was going through the experiences of the book, and it was my job. So I did it. 00;59;20;09 - 00;59;43;02 Jen Blackmer Right, right, and I think many of us remember where we were in that moment, because many truths that we thought, were, were a part of our existence changed. And and that happened very quickly, even though there was some anticipation that it may happen, there was a real difference when it did. Yes. 00;59;43;04 - 00;59;43;19 Jill Christman Yes. 00;59;43;24 - 01;00;07;17 Jen Blackmer Yeah. The refrain that, you keep coming back to and I think as it relates to the this moment in history, is that the choice you never thought you'd have to make is, is you never know what you'll do in that moment. Right. And that choosing something in theory, is not choosing. Yeah. 01;00;07;20 - 01;00;24;29 Jill Christman And that sounds really simple. And I really wrote myself to that conclusion after years and years of trying to understand. And I think one thing that's so different about this book for me. And so for those of you working on your memoirs out there, I'm three memoirs in. So I feel like I am a bit of an expert on this. 01;00;24;29 - 01;00;26;07 Jill Christman I've been doing this for 30 years. 01;00;26;07 - 01;00;27;10 Jen Blackmer Yeah, I'd say so. 01;00;27;12 - 01;00;47;02 Jill Christman I, and this is the advice I still give to my students who are on maybe, maybe for memoir number one, it's different, but I always say nobody gets to be in the room with you when you're working. Right there is, I once heard Cheryl Strayed say this, and it was hilarious and true. There is not a direct pipeline from your laptop to the New Yorker, right? 01;00;47;02 - 01;01;06;20 Jill Christman You're safe. Okay, so tell your story the way you need to tell your story. Don't let your mother come in the room with you. Don't let your spouse come in the room with you. Don't. Don't let those who intimidate you in any way come into the room with you. Maybe even the people who love you. Everybody out right? 01;01;06;22 - 01;01;36;08 Jill Christman With this book, it was completely different. I felt like this book was positioning me to be part of a conversation that we all need to have. And so I was like, Jen Blackmer, come into the room, right? Yeah. Mom, come on in. Right. My grown children, for whom I am always writing into a future where I might not even be, come into the room right. 01;01;36;10 - 01;02;03;24 Jill Christman Also, those who have faced a similar devastating diagnosis as we did, mid pregnancy and have to make a decision. Those of you who made a different decision come into the room. I want you to be here more than anybody else. Right? I want this to be a conversation about what we do when we are faced with the reality of that situation, with every single permutation of circumstance present. 01;02;03;24 - 01;02;27;24 Jill Christman Right. Like in our case, our baby was diagnosed with half a heart. He also had no aorta, right? The doctors told us his condition was incompatible with life and I didn't even know that was possible. Yeah, like I couldn't have told you how I would do this or I would do that because I didn't know that was possible. 01;02;27;26 - 01;02;37;16 Jill Christman And then in the writing of the book, I realized, well, I would have told you that I would have done this. And I hear myself thinking, even now, and I can stop myself now. I think, well, I would do this. I was like, would you? Jill? 01;02;37;18 - 01;02;38;26 Jen Blackmer Yeah. 01;02;38;29 - 01;02;55;06 Jill Christman Like, how do you know? Like what? What if what if you didn't have other children? What if, you know, there are just so many? What if, what if, what if? And I just one day I was like, an imaginary choice is not a choice. An imaginary choice is a mind experiment, right? 01;02;55;10 - 01;03;15;01 Jen Blackmer And the thought experiments that go on in, in places of power with the people who have the power to shape what those choices are, are often conducted in that singular mindset. Well, I would do fill in the blank and it's like you just there, you have no way of knowing. 01;03;15;01 - 01;03;33;14 Jill Christman You have no way of knowing. You have no way of knowing. And in fact, when I think about how I almost didn't finish this book right, and I almost did not allow myself to be part of that conversation, that's scary to me. Sure. Right. Because it almost worked. I was almost like, yeah, you're right, this is too hard. 01;03;33;16 - 01;03;48;26 Jill Christman This is too scary. I'm just going to keep it to myself. And I have never met a secret or a silence that helped anybody except for those trying to control the narrative. 01;03;48;28 - 01;04;18;24 Jen Blackmer Right? Right. You mentioned being invited in to the conversation, which is so powerful and it's so clear in the book, and I've known you for a long time, but there's something that is is really quite beautiful about the experience of feeling as though the person writing this book is talking directly to you. And that was my experience. It was almost like you were sitting next to me. 01;04;18;24 - 01;04;28;24 Jen Blackmer And there's there's such an exquisite vulnerability to that. And how do you write from that place? 01;04;28;26 - 01;04;58;15 Jill Christman Oh, that's a good question, Jen. I, I don't experience that as vulnerability as much as I used to. And I think it's partially comes from confidence. Right? I have practiced telling stories for many, many years. And and maybe I'm trying to make a theater analogy here, but I'm wondering, you know, like the first time you go on stage, you're probably more nervous, right? 01;04;58;15 - 01;04;58;26 Jen Blackmer Yeah. 01;04;58;26 - 01;05;13;12 Jill Christman And then as you as you do it and do it and do it, you're like, you know, I'm up here, but I could do something else. I could break down that fourth wall. I could let the audience in and like, you're ready for that. Right. So I think that that's I think that's the way it felt to me. 01;05;13;12 - 01;05;43;12 Jill Christman But also with that experience has come my full understanding that writing is the safest place. I know. I know, to be. I never feel safer or more comfortable than when I'm trying to figure out how to shape a story in words and so sometimes people say to me, how was what was it like to go back to that scary place? 01;05;43;12 - 01;05;43;17 Jen Blackmer Yeah, 01;05;43;19 - 01;06;09;29 Jill Christman Right? Wasn't that awful? And I used to think, oh, yeah, that was scary and I guess so. But now I understand that when I go back, I go back with everything I am now. Everyone who loves me all the power I have accrued right through using language to shape and experience. And I can go back to a thing that was scary at the time. 01;06;10;01 - 01;06;27;17 Jill Christman And now I can stop when I want. I can start when I want. I can figure out a metaphor that helps me to understand that thing better. So. So yeah, I think that maybe, vulnerability has come to mean actually a place of power. 01;06;27;20 - 01;06;29;10 Jen Blackmer Yeah, I believe that. Yeah. 01;06;29;13 - 01;06;37;20 Jill Christman And I think that the thing that you said about feeling like I was talking to you, that makes me so happy because I was. 01;06;37;20 - 01;06;37;28 Jen Blackmer Yeah. 01;06;37;28 - 01;06;57;15 Jill Christman Right. And that was the thing that felt so different to me in this book than anything else. I feel like other books I have written for myself, and that was good and right. And as it should be, and this one I was really trying to just have everybody come in and have that conversation with me. 01;06;57;18 - 01;07;17;20 Jill Christman And every time I came up against something that I felt afraid to say or felt like, oh, so-and-so wouldn't like this. First of all, I have never been right about that in any of my previous books ever. Yeah. And if you talk to memoirists, they'll tell you this. They'll be like, oh, I was afraid my father would be angry about this, or I was afraid my mother would have her feelings hurt by this. 01;07;17;22 - 01;07;31;27 Jill Christman Folks have been angry. Folks have had their feelings hurt. These things have happened. Although again, not as much as you would think. And I have never been right about what that thing would be. Never, ever. So I don't worry about that anymore, because what's the point? There's no point. Yeah. 01;07;31;29 - 01;07;49;18 Jen Blackmer Well, and it goes, it goes to show that that you never can really know the thought processes of another human being. I mean, part of what we do as writers is we are reaching out. We are, you know, sending out signals and all of that to the people in hopes that they'll pick them up and we'll have that moment of connection. 01;07;49;18 - 01;07;54;18 Jen Blackmer Right. And that happens. But sometimes the connection is not what we anticipate it to be almost always. 01;07;54;18 - 01;08;11;11 Jill Christman Right? Yeah. It's the same thing, I guess. I guess it's the same thing as with the choices, right? That's a it's another kind of thought experiment, right? Like, oh, I know this is you. Yeah. Actually don't know. Yeah. You have to write it and see how people respond. And so nothing makes me happier. And I've been getting this feedback on this book a lot. 01;08;11;15 - 01;08;18;24 Jill Christman It's a real page turner. Yeah. It's what people tell me. But they can't put it down. People are losing sleep now. I don't recommend at my age- 01;08;18;26 - 01;08;32;11 Jen Blackmer Losing sleep is true because I. My reading time is before I go to bed at night, and I would start and pick it up and say, okay, I'm going to read this much or I'm going to read this one section. I would read this one chapter and then, you know, an hour and a half later I'm going to bed late. 01;08;32;18 - 01;08;53;29 Jill Christman See, I am sorry about that. I'm glad, though, that it's compelling in that way. And the other thing that I, that, my publicists would want me to mention is that it's actually quite funny. So I know that we are talking about dark material, but another thing I was able to bring into this book, I think, where the fullness. 01;08;54;01 - 01;09;22;18 Jill Christman Well, who am I kidding? I'm always funny. I have been in the past also, right? But even more so is I don't think. I think that when we can laugh, we need to laugh. And I think that when we are able to open a window and let in some light, we should take that opportunity to do that, because the tough stuff is always going to be there waiting for us. 01;09;22;18 - 01;09;41;24 Jill Christman Right? The darker rooms are going to be there waiting for us, and when we can bring in that light in the air to help us navigate that tough stuff, it actually allows us to go to deeper places and then come up and see the light in there and then deal with what we need to deal with. And so I really let that into this book. 01;09;41;24 - 01;09;53;10 Jill Christman And when I thought, oh, this is not a place to, you know, have the funny scene where my husband Mark comes into the room and sees me. Oh, you'll have to read the book to see how 01;09;53;10 - 01;09;58;08 Jen Blackmer That’s right, it’s a really good scene. 01;09;58;08 - 01;10;15;03 Jill Christman I was what I was about to describe, they were going to cut from the radio anyway. Yeah. Oh. So, and I and I, I let myself revise towards the strange, as I tell my students. So when I, in those moments when I was like, oh, is this too far? I was like, nah. 01;10;15;04 - 01;10;39;16 Jen Blackmer Yeah. So yeah, well, and from the audience perspective. From the reader perspective, too. I think that juxtaposition of the light moments and the dark moments allows them to sort of be what they are, right? Because that's that's the lived experience. That's that is the way life, that's the way life is. And so to move from, from moments of, of light to dark is a skill we develop. 01;10;39;16 - 01;10;42;19 Jen Blackmer I think, as we, as we age and and live. 01;10;42;20 - 01;10;44;15 Jill Christman Yeah. Yeah. Completely. 01;10;44;15 - 01;11;17;21 Jen Blackmer Yeah. I think from a structural point of view too, you were talking about when we were, talking about vulnerability. There's something in the reading of this that, that I noted, which is this jumping back and forth through time. Right. And it starts with it does start with a tragedy. It's an unexpected tragedy. I mean, if you know what the book is about, it's it's unusual that you go all the way back in time, really to the to the, to the death of your fiancée. 01;11;17;22 - 01;11;51;18 Jill Christman Yeah, yeah. And, well, again, I don't want to spoil. There's a happy ending of the book there. I, I and he has a name. And I'm I'm not looking at that page now, but before, the baby that we that, we lost, we called him baby brother. And before baby brother, the defining tragedy of my life had been my fiancé Colin's death. 01;11;51;21 - 01;12;11;18 Jill Christman In a car accident when he was 22 and I was 20. And I had done much work around that. And then when I was writing this book, I thought, oh, I don't need to tell that story again. I have told that story. I have plumbed to that grief. 01;12;11;21 - 01;12;22;13 Jill Christman But of course, we as writers have these things we return to again and again. This is not a spoiler to say Jill Christman’s include love and grief. 01;12;22;14 - 01;12;23;00 Jen Blackmer Yes. 01;12;23;00 - 01;12;54;00 Jill Christman And fear. Yeah, that's kind of my trio. And I couldn't tell the story without telling the story of Colin's death because the knowledge that you could love, breathing in someone and they could go to work and never come back was one that I held on a cellular level, right? Like, I, I carry that fear. Believe me, my children could tell you they negotiate. 01;12;54;00 - 01;12;54;08 Jen Blackmer Yes. 01;12;54;10 - 01;13;21;28 Jill Christman They negotiate my awareness of the possibility of lost every day of their lives. And so that that I needed to return to that to tell this story. And also I found myself, you know, in a way, I think this is a happy thing about the book. Another thing I think it's about is the way we carry our beloveds with us. 01;13;22;00 - 01;13;51;06 Jill Christman And, you know, we think about van der Kolk’s The Body Keeps the Score. So we carry our trauma with us. Right. But we also carry our loves with us. Right. So I feel very physically that Colin has kind of come with me forward into my whole life. When the baby died, you know, I would, I would send my thoughts to him wherever he is and say. 01;13;51;08 - 01;14;04;21 Jill Christman See, I can't even say it. Yeah, I would say, just in case you think making a choice does not mean we we don't grieve, right. I and or that grief is a thing that ends. I would say, you know, please keep him warm. Keep him safe. 01;14;04;23 - 01;14;06;15 Jen Blackmer Yeah. 01;14;06;17 - 01;14;23;01 Jill Christman And so he's just always with me. And then I also learned in the process of writing this book that on a cellular level, we, when we're pregnant, fetal cells cross the placenta. 01;14;23;01 - 01;14;24;01 Jen Blackmer That's right. They do 01;14;24;01 - 01;14;38;20 Jill Christman into our bodies. And so every pregnancy we've ever carried, whether or not it results in a live birth means that we are carrying the cells of those children in our bodies, for a long time, 01;14;38;20 - 01;14;39;26 Jen Blackmer Which is beautiful. 01;14;39;26 - 01;14;41;06 Jill Christman Which is beautiful. Right. 01;14;41;10 - 01;14;43;26 Jen Blackmer As our children get older, too. Yeah. You. 01;14;43;26 - 01;14;47;20 Jill Christman Know, like, I got you, like, I actually got you. 01;14;47;23 - 01;14;50;05 Jen Blackmer Like literally, I got you. Yeah. 01;14;50;07 - 01;15;09;26 Jill Christman So, like this, I this is a great comfort to me. This idea that that we will lose it. It's. I don't know how we move through our lives all the time. I'm just looking at both of your faces right now. Like every day we have to move through life knowing that those we love most will die someday, right? 01;15;09;28 - 01;15;32;29 Jill Christman We might be here for that. We might not be here for that. But this is like the human condition of course. Right. And we're always navigating it. And so to kind of in this book talk about those who I love. And I think at the bottom of everything I do, what I want most is still to be able to show up in a day or on the page full of love. 01;15;33;01 - 01;15;33;21 Jen Blackmer Yeah. 01;15;33;23 - 01;15;54;10 Jill Christman Right. Like I want that. And I felt like I had the opportunity in telling the story and spending so much time shaping it to just come to this full realization that I carry them all with me into every day, into this room, into this, into this conversation right there, always with me. And that's a joy. 01;15;54;12 - 01;16;23;26 Jen Blackmer And speaking of joy, Jill, what a pleasure it's been to talk with you in studio today. Jill Christman is the author of four books. Her latest, The Heart Folds Early, was published on March 1st. 01;16;23;28 - 01;16;27;03 Jen Blackmer Hey, it's pop of culture. I’m Jen Blackmer. 01;16;27;05 - 01;16;51;21 Michelle Kinsey and I'm Michelle Kinsey. Duende Libre is an award winning Seattle jazz trio whose original music combines jazz virtuosity with roots and rhythms from Cuba, Brazil and West Africa into a strikingly authentic blend. The trio will perform April 23rd at Ball State University's Pruis Hall, but we've got band leader Alex Chadsey with us right now. 01;16;51;21 - 01;16;55;05 Michelle Kinsey Thank you for joining us on Pop of Culture. Alex. 01;16;55;08 - 01;16;58;03 Alex Chadsey Oh, it's my pleasure. I'm happy to be here. Thanks for having me. 01;16;58;09 - 01;17;03;07 Michelle Kinsey Absolutely. You are on keys with the band, right? Tell me about 01;17;03;13 - 01;17;03;17 Alex Chadsey That’s correct. 01;17;03;20 - 01;17;08;25 Michelle Kinsey Tell me about your other band mates. The rest of the trio who rounds it out for you. 01;17;08;27 - 01;17;47;06 Alex Chadsey So we've got Farko Dosumov on the electric bass and Jeff Bush playing drums and a wide array of hand percussion instruments ranging from bells and shakers to, an instrument that some of your listeners may be familiar with called the berimbau, which, originally has its origins, its roots in Africa. But most of us here in the US are familiar with it, by way of Brazilian and in particular Brazilian capoeira, Brazilian Afro-Brazilian, martial art form. 01;17;47;08 - 01;18;07;22 Michelle Kinsey So listeners have probably already figured out that this trio, performs a lot of globally inspired jazz with a lot of dimension, and your music draws heavily from areas all over the world. How did this Duende Libre approach to music happen? 01;18;07;24 - 01;18;42;20 Alex Chadsey Well, I can tell you that it wasn't anything that we sort of sat down or, you know, woke up one day and decided, okay, let's create a, you know, a band that combines jazz with, elements of, rhythms from Cuba, Brazil and the Mediterranean, West Africa. It was something that was a very natural process that just sort of unfolded, by nature of our eclectic tastes, I guess you could say. 01;18;42;22 - 01;19;13;20 Alex Chadsey But also our experiences, you know, so Jeff lived in Brazil for about six months and studied with master Brazilian musicians when he was actually an art student in the UK. And, I have traveled to Cuba multiple times and studied with, master musicians there. In fact, I was very fortunate to meet Chucho Valdes. I even had a lesson with the great Chucho Valdez in his home. 01;19;13;22 - 01;19;41;09 Alex Chadsey But actually, fell for us when I moved to Seattle. I was very fortunate to, Seattle at the time had a great, still does. But, there was there was a lot of gigs that were popping up, with salsa bands. And so I, you know, started playing with these, these bands and, and learning about the music and, and just really fell in love with it. 01;19;41;09 - 01;20;10;28 Alex Chadsey And that kind of set me down this path of really immersing myself in, in Afro Latin music, music of the African diaspora in particular in the Caribbean. And it was really, transformative experience for me, you know, through those experiences. I mean, of course, the music is what drew me in. But then I learned, with these folks, sort of, helped me redefine what music means to me. 01;20;10;28 - 01;20;41;09 Alex Chadsey Yeah. And, you know, and, and I came to understand that music is, is really about communication. It's about connection. You know, that was sort of like a ten year period in mostly in Seattle. But I did travel around as well. And then at some point, you know, the time came where I felt like, okay, now I want to sort of try to give back somehow, or at least, express some of these lessons that I've learned. 01;20;41;09 - 01;20;54;29 Alex Chadsey And, and also, you know, some of the how these traditions have impacted me. And so that's when I formed this band, and I immediately knew that Jeff and Sako were the guys who I wanted in my band. 01;20;55;01 - 01;21;20;26 Michelle Kinsey Oh, I mean, how amazing is that, that you find two other individuals that are just as passionate about all different kinds of music and inspiration was definitely something that came to mind when I was listening to the latest album, invocation, that was released late last year. I mean, the album is all over the place, like in a great way, like in the best way. 01;21;20;29 - 01;21;38;26 Michelle Kinsey I mean, it's Latin, it's funk, it's it's super, super fun. But it also includes, like you said, those moments of of inspiration and kind of shout outs to, to those artists that have meant so much to you. Can you talk a little bit about Chick Corea and how the track chick came about? 01;21;38;29 - 01;22;25;26 Alex Chadsey Yeah, absolutely. That that tune was written probably in the space of like an hour or something. Right after I, a friend of mine texted me at, and shared the news. That Chick, when Chick passed away, I believe that was in 2021. And it really, hit me sort of in an unexpectedly big way. You know, it was one of those things where I don't think I fully appreciated, Chick’ss influence and impact on me until I found out that he had suddenly passed, you know, but I always tell people that with that, there would be no when they leave without Chick Corea. 01;22;26;01 - 01;23;10;15 Alex Chadsey Because for me, Chick, he was a he certainly wasn't the only jazz great to do this. But he was open and articulate to making those connections between jazz and music from other parts of the world. And of course, that's nothing new in in jazz. So that in my mind, there's always been this conversation between American jazz and music from the Caribbean, music from, you know, throughout the Americas, music from Africa, music from all over. 01;23;10;18 - 01;23;17;14 Alex Chadsey But, you know, artists like Chick Corea have really sort of championed it in a way that was a huge inspiration on me. 01;23;17;18 - 01;23;27;07 Michelle Kinsey Yeah. Do you see it as kind of continuing to carry that torch? And is there a lot of pressure that comes with that when you're trying to pay tribute to. 01;23;27;09 - 01;23;49;15 Alex Chadsey Those are huge, huge shoes to fill. But yeah. So I mean, in our own way, of course, you know. Yeah, we're we're trying to do our part what we can and it's it's yeah, it's certainly an opportunity. You know, because sometimes we get to travel to some communities where some of where, you know, folks have never seen a berimbau before, you know. 01;23;49;17 - 01;23;49;29 Michelle Kinsey Wow. 01;23;50;00 - 01;24;14;14 Alex Chadsey And there's, there's always like a, a small crowd. And I would anticipate this will also be the case, at Ball State on, on April 23rd, where there's often like a crowd of people around Jeff, you know, on the intermission or after the show or just want to see what you know, what you know, because it looks it kind of looks like a bow and arrow. 01;24;14;14 - 01;24;14;21 Michelle Kinsey Yes. 01;24;14;23 - 01;24;38;17 Alex Chadsey And and it makes this really, it's a I mean, he, for the folks who are listening, who may not know what a berimbau is, there's sort of like a, a metal wire on a stick that, and then there's, like a gourd resonator at the bottom that sort of amplifies the sound. And then Jeff, essentially strikes the wire. 01;24;38;25 - 01;24;52;24 Alex Chadsey So it just makes this really interesting sound. And in Afro-Brazilian culture, I believe the, the, the, the belief is that the beat and bow is sort of used to communicate with the ancestors. 01;24;52;26 - 01;24;53;14 Michelle Kinsey Oh, wow. 01;24;53;14 - 01;25;18;17 Alex Chadsey So, so it's it has a very, important spiritual significance in that tradition. And, and anyhow, it's, it's the instruments and of course the rhythms and all of these things, they're just great opportunity for us to talk about where these instruments and these rhythms come from, and also how we were introduced to them. 01;25;18;17 - 01;25;28;29 Alex Chadsey Because all of this, we were, learned by apprenticing with masters from these, these traditions. 01;25;29;00 - 01;25;47;21 Michelle Kinsey Absolutely. Well, you'll you will be sharing that with, Muncie community audience very, very soon. For those who may be hearing the trio for the first time, kind of, could you describe the experience? What do you want people to get out of the show? 01;25;47;24 - 01;25;50;07 Alex Chadsey We want to lift people up. 01;25;50;07 - 01;25;50;18 Michelle Kinsey Yeah. 01;25;50;20 - 01;26;17;15 Alex Chadsey You know, essentially, I mean, you know, this a lot of this music, a lot of these traditions are, as I mentioned, they're from the African diaspora. And in particular the Caribbean, Brazil. And of course, as we know from history, the Africans that came to the New World did not come here voluntarily. 01;26;17;18 - 01;26;46;01 Alex Chadsey Right. And it was. And it was a pretty horrific history in a lot of ways. And yet it was music and culture that helped folks survive. And so this which is just to say that this music is resilient, you know, there's there's resilience like that is sort of embedded in these rhythms that's embedded in these traditions. And I think, resilience is something that we all need right now. 01;26;46;05 - 01;26;47;09 Michelle Kinsey Oh, yeah. 01;26;47;09 - 01;27;07;04 Alex Chadsey You know, because we're all I mean, everyone is sort of going through it. And in one way or another, you know, in our, in our, our stories may not look the same and our contexts may be different, but, you know, it's it's not an easy, time for our species on the planet, right? 01;27;07;04 - 01;27;07;22 Michelle Kinsey Yeah. 01;27;07;25 - 01;27;25;23 Alex Chadsey So I think, we're just hoping that whatever, you know, that this will help folks, you know, feel recharged, feel refreshed and ready to, you know, engage, wholeheartedly with, with their lives and with the things they care about and the people that care about. 01;27;25;25 - 01;27;34;00 Michelle Kinsey Yeah. And I would also say just, you know, having those moments of collective joy are super important, too, right? 01;27;34;03 - 01;27;35;11 Alex Chadsey Absolutely. 01;27;35;14 - 01;27;55;15 Michelle Kinsey Let's end our conversation talking about the word duende. It has a really beautiful meaning, right? Spirit, soul, a kind of emotional intensity in art. What does duende mean to you when you are on stage performing? 01;27;55;17 - 01;28;24;05 Alex Chadsey That's a great question. No one's ever asked me that. Yeah. You know, it's trying to tap into. Yeah. Well, the duende, as you mentioned it, it comes from, Gaetano culture in the, you know, from the Iberian Peninsula was famously associated with flamenco music. And it's as you mentioned, it's sort of like this, almost, primordial kind of spirit. 01;28;24;08 - 01;28;46;14 Alex Chadsey very grounded, like in the Earth and as opposed to, like, the angel and the muse that are more kind of transcendental. And it it's it's me and it's the trio. Right. So if we're we're trying to really listen, we're trying to create a communion or conversation on stage that then we hope will, radiate out and bring in the audience. 01;28;46;14 - 01;29;11;15 Alex Chadsey Right? So that, like you were saying, it's that moment of of joy, or you know, you could say catharsis. That, that, can be experienced in a live performance. And I think it's one of the things that's actually really unique about live performance that is, it's hard to replicate that. I mean, of course, recordings are great. 01;29;11;18 - 01;29;33;20 Alex Chadsey And you can, you know, experience that on some level through a recording. But I think just being in the same room, you know, with the audience, with the musicians on stage, it's it's a shared experience that, that that is really, I think one of the great joys of, of life and, and part of our birthright is as human beings. 01;29;33;21 - 01;29;39;06 Michelle Kinsey Yeah. Yeah. Well, this conversation has definitely been a moment of joy for mem, Alex. 01;29;39;06 - 01;29;40;13 Michelle Kinsey Thank you so much 01;29;40;21 - 01;29;41;05 Alex Chadsey Me, too! 01;29;41;05 - 01;29;51;05 Michelle Kinsey for taking the time. I really look forward to seeing the group April 23rd at Pruis Hall. Again, thank you so much for joining me on pop culture. 01;29;51;07 - 01;30;01;01 Alex Chadsey Oh, yeah. Thank you for the invitation. It's been my pleasure. 01;30;01;04 - 01;30;07;23 Michelle Kinsey Dunde Libre will make a rare Midwestern appearance at Pruis Hall on Thursday, April 23rd. 01;30;07;25 - 01;30;19;28 Jen Blackmer Our podcast, on the other hand, appears weekly. Find Pop of Culture on YouTube, Apple Podcasts, the NPR app, or at Indiana Public Radio. Dot org. 01;30;20;00 - 01;30;35;08 Music Do do do do do do do. 01;30;35;11 - 01;30;38;09 Jen Blackmer You're listening to Pop of Culture. I'm Jen Blackmer. 01;30;38;11 - 01;30;39;23 Michelle Kinsey I'm Michelle Kinsey. 01;30;39;25 - 01;30;53;23 Stephanie Wiechmann And I'm Stephanie Wiechmann. We are here with the Muncie Arts and Culture Council to talk about art for the people, a weekend long celebration of public art. Tania Said is the council's executive director. Kim Miller is president of the board. Welcome. 01;30;53;25 - 01;30;54;11 Kim Miller Hi. 01;30;54;13 - 01;30;56;07 Tania Said Hi. Thanks for having us. 01;30;56;10 - 01;31;00;23 Stephanie Wiechmann First of all, can you give us an overview of what the weekend will have for the public? 01;31;00;26 - 01;31;23;20 Tania Said Well, the great news is that because we finished so many wonderful works of public art in 2025, we are going to have six celebrations and feature two others that we have. So eight in all over the course of Friday, April 24th and Saturday, April 25th. 01;31;23;23 - 01;31;30;12 Stephanie Wiechmann And I know that the work was paid for with, federal Covid 19 federal funds. How excited are you that, the community decided that that's what we wanted to do with some of those federal funds. 01;31;30;15 - 01;31;50;10 Kim Miller It was a really great opportunity for Muncie arts and culture to listen to the community and see what they really wanted. So it's been really great to see the projects now coming to life and people talking about them and just seeing how excited the entire community has been to see these things happening in their community. 01;31;50;12 - 01;32;02;18 Stephanie Wiechmann I want to describe a few of the pieces, but first of all, could you talk about the intention of public art? Public art is different from, say, a painting, on a wall, in a museum. What's kind of the role of public art in Muncie? 01;32;02;20 - 01;32;26;25 Tania Said I think it's been changing, and I think that's really important to note. So we have a wonderful history in Muncie that has featured artists and public art throughout the city, and that has been really valuable. And it's been helpful for memorializing people and celebrations or different moments. But it's also been a very historical, traditional kind of approach. 01;32;26;25 - 01;32;48;02 Tania Said And what we're looking at now is something that is more contemporary, more representative of who we are and where we are, and what I think is most valuable is, representing the voices, because there has been so much community participation and all of those works of art. With this funding, we've been able to change it so it's more forward looking. 01;32;48;05 - 01;33;02;09 Tania Said The thing I love about public art is that it is free and accessible all the time. Doesn't matter day or night. There's no admission. There's no quote free day that, like so many institutions, have to have to ensure that they're accessible because it's always accessible. 01;33;02;11 - 01;33;09;11 Stephanie Wiechmann Speaking of that, are all the eight artworks that you're talking about? Are they all permanent installations or are some of them temporary? 01;33;09;13 - 01;33;22;13 Kim Miller With this, plan, we have to have everything out for at least ten years. So the sculptures obviously will probably be much longer lived. And then hopefully with the murals, you know, they have a long, healthy life. 01;33;22;15 - 01;33;43;04 Tania Said The Muncie Arts and Culture Council will, upon completion, continue to own those works of art and that each one of these sites has in effect borrowed it or, it's on loan, so to speak, from the Muncie Arts and Culture Council. And so together, we are responsible for maintaining it and ensuring that it's publicly available for years to come. 01;33;43;07 - 01;33;53;12 Stephanie Wiechmann Oh, excellent. Could you maybe pick one of the pieces and describe them for people? Since this is radio, as kind of a preview of this is what you could see for the weekend. 01;33;53;12 - 01;33;56;02 Tania Said The one at eighth and Hoyt is called Habitat Haven. 01;33;56;09 - 01;34;00;20 Tania Said It's at the corner across from the Common Market and across 01;34;00;20 - 01;34;23;24 Tania Said from the Addiction Prevention Center. And so imagine you're driving northeast on Hoyt, and you see these red, yellow and blue, pie segments that are situated in this small park. In addition to that, you see a swinging bench. You see some cement benches, places to sit, places to gather. 01;34;24;01 - 01;34;50;29 Tania Said And on this far wall, attached to the habitat for humanity headquarters are these different sign cutouts as well. So you start to get a feeling that there's a kind of momentum around this location. It's brightly colored. It has this sort of pie circular motif, and it feels like it has some action associated with it. And that's a reference to the gears and the automotive history of our area as well. 01;34;51;03 - 01;35;11;04 Tania Said The artist, Greg Mueller, really took time to consider how this could be the kind of, reflective, welcoming place that would be appealing to people both in the Thomas Park Avondale neighborhood and the South Central neighborhood. And anyone who visits from all over Muncie, Delaware County and beyond. 01;35;11;07 - 01;35;14;11 Stephanie Wiechmann Wonderful. Do you have one that, that you like? 01;35;14;17 - 01;35;23;08 Kim Miller Kind of love them all, but, one that I really hope a lot of people come out and see is, the mural at Art rise. 01;35;23;10 - 01;35;44;04 Kim Miller One of the reasons is one, it's very beautiful, but it also has a lot of connections to, our community as well that people may not realize. So, like the wall, you can really publicly see if you're on, Martin Luther King Jr. There's a lot of willow trees and the reasoning they're on there, they’re a callback to the willows that have been planted by the community down by the river. 01;35;44;07 - 01;36;00;02 Kim Miller And so that's a really neat connection. But what's kind of hidden that a lot of people probably don't know about is on the very back side, there's a very beautiful, mural of two women looking at each other, one younger and one older. And they're so well done. And it's just really beautiful to reflect back on. 01;36;00;04 - 01;36;10;00 Stephanie Wiechmann I was reading the schedule for the weekend, and there are family friendly events, there's live music, there is light food. It feels like a moving neighborhood block party through the weekend. 01;36;10;04 - 01;36;11;17 Stephanie Wiechmann Was that intentional? 01;36;11;20 - 01;36;27;19 Tania Said Yeah. I'm so glad you said that, because, the idea is that there's something for everyone. You can do as much or as little as you would like. And I almost think of it like, what is that called, those kind of, gourmet feast, kind of Galloping Gourmet. What are those, like 01;36;27;19 - 01;36;29;06 Stephanie Wiechmann Progressive dinners? 01;36;29;06 - 01;36;51;24 Tania Said Progressive dinners, yes. It has a little bit of that feel. And in fact, there will be refreshments served at almost every location. So if you wanted to do it that way, you really could between, donuts, brunch, lunch and snacks everywhere it seems. But it is supposed to also kind of build so that you feel by the end that in effect, you've seen kind of an exhibition across the city. 01;36;51;26 - 01;36;59;12 Stephanie Wiechmann Wonderful. The schedule shows you've also added a live music show on Friday night to benefit Muncie Arts, who's playing? 01;36;59;12 - 01;37;18;21 Tania Said On Friday, April 24th at The Room five Piano Bar. We have a benefit concert that is going to be done. And, Mike Martin of the Common Market, whose businesses across from the habitat Haven that I mentioned at eighth and Hoyt, he suggested this 50/50 concert to support the Muncie Arts and Culture Council. 01;37;18;28 - 01;37;53;10 Tania Said So in addition to Mike Martin and The Beautiful Mess, we also have Doc and the Little Chicago band and, a singer songwriter named Brandon Rodriguez. So the event is 21 plus. Everything else is very family friendly, but we encourage people to come to this 50/50 benefit concert and enjoy live music. And I think that's going to be a fantastic complement to the range of public art that we have across the city, because, you know, the Muncie Arts and Culture Council is about all the arts. And so to have this performing art, musical aspect to it just helps round out the whole weekend. 01;37;53;12 - 01;38;11;00 Stephanie Wiechmann And I also saw on the schedule for those who maybe aren't 21, families, that there's going to be live jazz at one event and, there's going to be another local, singer songwriter at an event on Saturday. I like the interplay of of music and public art, so there's something visual, but something auditory as well. 01;38;11;02 - 01;38;26;03 Tania Said Yes, it feels like a party. Whenever you have music, there's a celebration. We want people to know that, this is not your, static art experience. This is live. This is energetic. This is about people and all this public art together. 01;38;26;05 - 01;38;30;18 Stephanie Wiechmann So for the weekend, where can people find the full schedule of events and all the details? 01;38;30;20 - 01;38;44;12 Tania Said So the best place to go is Muncie Arts dot org slash art for the people. We have a complete page devoted to the entire weekend's events, and you can also see snippets about each artist. 01;38;44;15 - 01;38;48;12 Stephanie Wiechmann Wonderful. Tania and Kim, thank you so much for bringing us art for the people. 01;38;48;19 - 01;38;49;04 Kim Miller Thank you. 01;38;49;09 - 01;38;50;21 Tania Said Thank you for having us. 01;38;50;23 - 01;38;55;20 Stephanie Wiechmann I'm Stephanie Wiechmann. Want more arts calendar? Now over to Michelle and Jen. 01;38;55;23 - 01;38;59;19 Jen Blackmer Michelle, I think we're off to see the arts calendar. 01;38;59;20 - 01;39;01;03 Michelle Kinsey Oh, we are indeed. 01;39;01;04 - 01;39;21;12 Jen Blackmer Indeed. We're going to follow the yellow brick road, first of all. First of all, to Andersen's mainstage theater for The Wizard of Oz, taking the stage Friday, April 17th through April 26th. Join Dorothy on her journey with the Scarecrow, Tin Man, and Lion to Emerald City. MainstageTheatre.org has the details. 01;39;21;19 - 01;39;47;22 Michelle Kinsey The fifth Annual Muncie Comic Con is Saturday, April 18th at the Delaware County Fairgrounds. The event features comic creators, cosplay contests, and more. Meet industry pros and celebrate your favorite comics in a fun, family friendly atmosphere. This year includes a children's area, a larger artist alley, and even additional vendors. More... Muncie Comic Con dot com say that three times fast. 01;39;47;24 - 01;39;48;04 Jen Blackmer How about that, yeah. 01;39;48;06 - 01;39;48;11 Michelle Kinsey has more details 01;39;48;11 - 01;40;13;05 Jen Blackmer And it's growing. Comic con is growing and it's great to see. Ball State's Department of Theatre and Dance will present the 25th Annual Putnam County Spelling Bee, now through April 25th, at the Oakwood Building near campus. An oddball crew of middle schoolers gather for the annual Putnam County Spelling Bee, where the words are tough, the competition is tougher, and the emotions run hilariously high. 01;40;13;08 - 01;40;19;16 Jen Blackmer Bsu.edu/theatre is the place to go for more info. And real quick about that. 01;40;19;17 - 01;40;19;24 Michelle Kinsey Yeah. 01;40;19;25 - 01;40;26;10 Jen Blackmer The Oakwood Building is a nontraditional space when it's actually in the gym in that old school. So it's going to be fun. 01;40;26;11 - 01;40;34;17 Michelle Kinsey And yeah, very appropriate for this show. And just so you know, to kind of orient yourself, it is next to Northside Middle School. 01;40;34;17 - 01;40;36;17 Jen Blackmer Right, on Oakwood. 01;40;36;19 - 01;40;49;27 Michelle Kinsey Locked Groove Records will have a Record Store Day celebration Saturday, April 18th at the store located in the Ball State Village. The event will include special vinyl releases and reissues, live music, tasty beverages, and more. 01;40;50;01 - 01;41;06;20 Michelle Kinsey The event is from 10 a.m. to 7 p.m. And Monkey Jack's Emporium in New Castle will also celebrate Record Store Day on April 18th. The event will be 8 a.m. to 6 p.m. and will feature Record Store Day releases and more. Be sure to check your favorite record store for other events. 01;41;06;22 - 01;41;34;24 Jen Blackmer And your favorite tasty beverages. The exhibit America at 250 Reflections on Community, is on display at Minnetrista Museum and Gardens. It's a celebration of America's 250th birthday through Community Voices, an exploration of citizenship, belonging and identity. This interactive gallery invites visitors to consider what it means to be an American, and how diverse perspectives come together to form a vibrant community. 01;41;34;26 - 01;41;56;05 Michelle Kinsey The Anderson Museum of Art's annual InFocus exhibition is on display now. This juried photography exhibition features the work of Hoosier photographers in the categories of people, nature, wildlife, architecture, film, digital manipulation, and an open category. More than 100 photos are on display. 01;41;56;07 - 01;42;12;10 Jen Blackmer The Del McCoury band will perform Friday, April 17th at the Paramount Theater in Anderson. Del McCoury is bluegrass, performing from the Grand Old Opry to sold out festivals, including his own Del Fest. The music begins at 7:30 p.m.. 01;42;12;12 - 01;42;23;15 Michelle Kinsey The Ball State Jazz Ensembles will perform a salute to video game music, Wednesday, April 22nd at Sursa Performance Hall. The sonic sounds begin at 7:30 p.m.. 01;42;23;16 - 01;42;38;14 Jen Blackmer Tell us about your sonic sounds or any other artsy events at Indiana Public radio.org/contact. Then click. Pop of culture. 01;42;38;16 - 01;43;06;02 Voiceover Support for pop of culture comes from Stallings wealth management and from you. You might have seen a federal judge's recent ruling against an executive order to defund public media. This does not reverse our loss of federal funding. So you are the reason local programing is still on IPR. Give today at Indiana Public Radio dot org. 01;43;06;05 - 01;43;09;27 Michelle Kinsey And that's our show. Our art director is Tracie Louck. 01;43;10;00 - 01;43;17;16 Jen Blackmer This week was produced by Luke Jones, whose superpower is making us sound great every week. 01;43;17;19 - 01;43;20;19 Michelle Kinsey We had production assistance from Andrew Montavon. 01;43;20;23 - 01;43;25;21 Jen Blackmer Our audio fellow is Maya Doss, and our show was hosted by me, Jen Blackmer. 01;43;25;21 - 01;43;35;11 Michelle Kinsey And me, Michelle Kinsey. Pop of culture is a production from IPR on the campus of Ball State University. 01;43;35;13 - 01;43;36;06 Michelle Kinsey [Blooper] Okay. 01;43;36;07 - 01;43;47;10 Michelle Kinsey Yep. We are. I'm testing right now to make sure we're recording. Yup. It looks like the Steph do you see like the middle one isn't coming up, though. Is that okay? 01;43;47;10 - 01;43;48;28 Stephanie Wiechmann because Alex isn't talking. 01;43;49;00 - 01;43;51;03 Michelle Kinsey Alex, could you say something real quick? Oh, yeah. 01;43;51;06 - 01;43;52;14 Alex Chadsey Oh hello check check one two 01;43;52;16 - 01;43;53;11 Michelle Kinsey Yeah. Yep. All righty.